Firing multiple Sidewinders

I have an issue in the F-14. It often fires my Sidewinders in multiples. Usually I only carry two, so it fires both and leaves me without. I can get it to fire one at a time, but only if I tap my trigger as gently and quickly as physically possible. Even 0.5 seconds holding it down it interprets as firing everything. Are there some settings I can change to stop this happening?

I have an issue in the F-14. It often fires my Sidewinders in multiples. Usually I only carry two, so it fires both and leaves me without. I can get it to fire one at a time, but only if I tap my trigger as gently and quickly as physically possible. Even 0.5 seconds holding it down it interprets as firing everything. Are there some settings I can change to stop this happening?

T.16000M, no additional software.

T.16000M, no additional software.

The t-16000 should have a single trigger, right? Double trigger with both stages mapped to "Trigger" may be something to check, otherwise.

I have the same problem with Saitek X65F.

And have it with F-14B only.

F-15C hasn't it. M2000 has no problem like this.

But F-14B has it with AIM-9 only. Not for AIM-7 or AIM-54...

You could check in the Windows Gamecontroller settings if the button 1 (trigger) behaves strange.

The t-16000 should have a single trigger, right? Double trigger with both stages mapped to "Trigger" may be something to check, otherwise.

Single trigger, nothing weird in Windows settings.

I have the same problem with Saitek X65F.

And have it with F-14B only.

F-15C hasn't it. M2000 has no problem loke this.

 

But F-14B has it with AIM-9 only. Not for AIM-7 or AIM-54...

I don't have this problem with FC3 planes, but they actually require you to hold the trigger for 1-2 seconds for launch. Or the MiG-21, but that forces you to select stations.

I do however have the same problem with the F/A-18C. And on the F-14 I've done this accidentally with the AIM-7 and AIM-54 as well, but not as often. With the AIM-54s, I assumed you have to hold the trigger for the 2 to 3 second launch cycle, but this just fires all 4 at once! Is that even intended behaviour?

It seems it is more likely to happen if you reflex-fire on the Sidewinder tone while boresighting a target without a radar lock. Firing with radar lock makes it less likely, but still possible.

T.16000M, no additional software.

Preciselly the same joystick here with Windows 7, and I've had no issues so far...

Preciselly the same joystick here with Windows 7, and I've had no issues so far...

Interesting. I'm on Windows 10 but I wouldn't jump to blame OS. My Joystick is getting a bit old now.

I'm going to experiment with mapping the weapon fire function to a button other than the trigger and see if I have the same problem.

Interesting. I'm on Windows 10 but I wouldn't jump to blame OS. My Joystick is getting a bit old now.

 

I'm going to experiment with mapping the weapon fire function to a button other than the trigger and see if I have the same problem.

Actually, you should be required, to press and hold the trigger to launch to release one(!) missile. To fire a second missile, you should be required to release the trigger and pull it again.

Actually, you should be required, to press and hold the trigger to launch to release one(!) missile. To fire a second missile, you should be required to release the trigger and pull it again.

That's certainly something that could be implemented by module devs. I had the Hornet fire 3 SPAMRAAMS at a single trigger press already as well. I know my stick is old, but there's yet to be a replacement on the market

Praise Celestia those utterly silly patents have been lifted, finally

Just curious...do the phoenix and sparrows require a timed consent from you? I know it's supposed to but one click of my trigger results in either of them flying in a few seconds.

I'm using a saitek av8r. No probs with aim9s...but the radars launch no matter what even if I change my mind after one trigger click.

Just curious...do the phoenix and sparrows require a timed consent from you? I know it's supposed to but one click of my trigger results in either of them flying in a few seconds.

AFAIK, they don't require a timed consent but take a couple of seconds to activate/launch for each trigger press.

AFAIK, they don't require a timed consent but take a couple of seconds to activate/launch for each trigger press.

Oh I thought it was supposed to be a consent type thing cause of the delay and a few guides and vids out there talking about holding it down.

Thanks!

That's why I held down initially and like I said, it fired all 4 Phoenixes!

So now I tap really fast and a few seconds later one comes off the rail. Rarely two.

That's why I held down initially and like I said, it fired all 4 Phoenixes!

 

So now I tap really fast and a few seconds later one comes off the rail. Rarely two.

Regarding the Phoenixes, I didn't test it yet to know if it's supposed to fire all of them if one keeps the trigger pressed.

But about the Sidewinders and the Sparrows they do fire only one round, regardless if one keeps the trigger pressed.

So, if you really have the Joystick correctly mapped (no repeated assigned functions for the same button) at the sim options, I believe your problem could be hardware related.

i.e. I've read somewhere that a T.16000 user had to disassemble the trigger unit and clean the contact behind the orange plastic trigger itself... because if I recal correctly, it wasn't firing everytime, and sometimes it seemed to get stuck and kept firing.

Right, so I tested this and it's definitely the physical joystick. Initially in a test mission I couldn't make it happen at all, and I was going to blame server lag, but then I worked it out accidentally.

What makes it happen is how suddenly and how hard I pull the trigger. Gentle squeeze, only one missile. Even with holding, I was wrong about that. I probably assumed it was holding because when multiples fire while you're still pressing the trigger it's easy to blame that. And Phoenix has a launch delay so you don't know if it fired more than one until 3 seconds later.

Obviously in a chilled testing mission I was being gentle (initially). In twitchy combat I naturally squeeze hard and *poof*, multiple launch. After some "practice" I could do it every time. I managed to launch all 4 Sidewinders at once from an F-14, and 3 at once from an F/A-18. Sparrows and Phoenixes too. This also explains why I thought it affected Sidewinders worse, I'm more relaxed when launching BVR.

However, it still only affects the Tomcat and Hornet. I tried quite hard with the F-15 and never managed a double shot, so something about the launch logic in FC3 planes filters out the bad inputs I guess.

I also tested re-mapping to a different button and I can't make it happen so it's only the trigger. This is really worrying actually, especially combined with what you're saying about needing to disasseble the trigger to clean it!

Guess I need to learn to be gentle!

That's certainly something that could be implemented by module devs. I had the Hornet fire 3 SPAMRAAMS at a single trigger press already as well. I know my stick is old, but there's yet to be a replacement on the market

 

 

Praise Celestia those utterly silly patents have been lifted, finally

The pinky switch on my WH grip seems to be going, it display multiple press/releases on a single press for me. I use it for NWS on most craft and it can be hard to get just one press out of it.

I know ED has better things to do, but maybe sometime a limit could be put on press frequencies, perhaps only 4 presses of any given button per second? I can't think of any button, off hand, we ever need to press more frequently than that?

Just wishful thinking, I don't want to have to figure out how to replace that button :)

 

...

 

Obviously in a chilled testing mission I was being gentle (initially). In twitchy combat I naturally squeeze hard and *poof*, multiple launch. After some "practice" I could do it every time. I managed to launch all 4 Sidewinders at once from an F-14, and 3 at once from an F/A-18. Sparrows and Phoenixes too. This also explains why I thought it affected Sidewinders worse, I'm more relaxed when launching BVR.

 

However, it still only affects the Tomcat and Hornet. I tried quite hard with the F-15 and never managed a double shot, so something about the launch logic in FC3 planes filters out the bad inputs I guess.

 

I also tested re-mapping to a different button and I can't make it happen so it's only the trigger. This is really worrying actually, especially combined with what you're saying about needing to disasseble the trigger to clean it!

 

Guess I need to learn to be gentle!

That.

I have never experienced a multiple launch with my Warthog HOTAS. Seems some of the triggers used are a bit more prone to jitter, or "bumping" (German word is "prellen"). So they trigger more than just one pulse accidentally?

But that is an high-end, top of the line HOTAS...

Now me, I've got to make it with a T.16000M FCS and TWCS Throttle combo, which functions wise is very good, but in therms of construction quality... does have some flaws.

(i.e. throttle hats with some play / wobble, etc.)

Previously I've come from a Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner which lasted 17 years, before its X axis potentiometer start getting crazy...

That.

It's not really practical for me to permanently re-map, partly because I use that button for something else, and partly because it would feel wrong and immersion breaking on an aircraft I know uses the trigger to launch missiles.

It might work, if only ED allowed you to assign the same button to multiple functions (no idea why they don't).

I have never experienced a multiple launch with my Warthog HOTAS. Seems some of the triggers used are a bit more prone to jitter, or "bumping" (German word is "prellen"). So they trigger more than just one pulse accidentally?

That's most probably the case. But it's extremely rare, so I don't really bother, my good old FFB2 is doing a good job after all those years still. But that happening led me to thinking it would be more correct that a trigger has to be held for three seconds in order to drop a Phoenix for example, with the possibility to abort by releasing it after less than three seconds. And I'd expect other planes to behave similarly, but with shorter durations. Well, in the A-10C a pickle button pressed for too short will even cause hung stores.

If your joystick has mapping software that assigns buttons to keystroke...fire that up, change all the buttons to letters, open notepad and see what's typed as you push buttons. I did that with some 3rd party software for the FFP years ago to diagnose a screwed up button.

That might help narrow down the problem that some people are experiencing....rule something out at least.

That's most probably the case. But it's extremely rare, so I don't really bother, my good old FFB2 is doing a good job after all those years still. But that happening led me to thinking it would be more correct that a trigger has to be held for three seconds in order to drop a Phoenix for example, with the possibility to abort by releasing it after less than three seconds. And I'd expect other planes to behave similarly, but with shorter durations. Well, in the A-10C a pickle button pressed for too short will even cause hung stores.

In the A-10C the bomb release is required to be held to release, especially with JDAM, where the coordinates are transfered during the drop. I am speculating now: May be the modern precision weapons execute the release cycle under control of the weapons computer et al whereas the older bomb release is a typical electrical impuls through a circuit to the release clamps and arming the bombs is more like pulling the plug with the cable attached. Even for LGB it still seems like that.

Missiles are a bit different. The seeker needs to capture the target/radar return or at least the guidance system needs to know a course to fly before activating their own radar/seeker. This requires time, but the process is likely executed inside the missile, after(!) the trigger impulse has been sent.

I may be wrong here, but it seems plausible. So if your physical button executes multiple trigger impulses unlike the heavy spring loaded trigger in the real aircraft sticks, it will result in multiple missiles fired.

The sticks like the Warthog have very long travel and require force to pull each stage of the trigger. Thus you need to release and really pull again. That does not mean a faulty trigger can't happen, but at least I never experienced any since I have mine.

It's not really practical for me to permanently re-map, partly because I use that button for something else, and partly because it would feel wrong and immersion breaking on an aircraft I know uses the trigger to launch missiles.

 

It might work, if only ED allowed you to assign the same button to multiple functions (no idea why they don't).

No, by "that" what I meant was, that it is probably the cause of your problem.

By the way, are you considering to disassemble the trigger unit ?

No, by "that" what I meant was, that it is probably the cause of your problem.

 

By the way, are you considering to disassemble the trigger unit ?

Ah fair enough. Yes, that does strongly indicate the problem comes from the physical trigger unit.

No, I don't feel confident enough disassembling it, I don't want to break it. I understand the cause so now I can play more carefully around it, I can get it to fire single every time now I know how to press. If it gets worse, eventually I'll just get a new stick, T.16000M is not that expensive and mine is nearly 4 years old.