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How do I AAR?


ouseler

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I CAN'T DO IT! I JUST CAN'T DO IT. Refueling the Hornet is nearly impossible at this point!

 

I have flown the Hog for years and decided to transition to fast-movers. And yeah, it was hard to refuel on the Hog, but I was able to stabilize and hold station to get some gas. I had read where many people thought the Hog was the hardest plane to AAR. I had been doing it for a while and thought the Hornet would be a cake walk. BUT IT'S NOT, DAMMIT!!! The inputs are so sensitive that I can't be delicate enough to get the thing in the thing.

 

I make it a point to come in from work and fly the refueling mission with S-3 in the Persian Gulf a few times a week. And every time, I give up after running out of fuel a couple times and go bomb the crap out of something. But most of the time, I'm mad and I don't want to fly anymore which is sad. Because, I love flying in DCS so much. But the truth is, if I can't get on the tanker then I am not going to be mission effective. That's the cold, hard truth.

 

In the Hog, I had some visual points that I focused on through the HUD, but it seems there is nothing that I can find to use as a reference other than the S-3 tanker looking out the canopy (nothing I can use as reference through the HUD).

 

I tried all my tricks from the Hog:

1. Un-couple the throttle and walk it up.

2. Stabilize some distance back (this is my biggest problem, the plane WILL NOT FLY LEVEL) I trim, and trim some more, and trim again, but it keeps wanting to slide off to the left or the right. I cannot get the tanker static in the canopy. It is always moving a little bit.

3. I even flattened out my pitch and roll curves to 35 thinking that would dampen my movements, but no joy.

4. I attempt to keep the hose vertical in front of me, but the plane has a mind of its own.

 

It also seems I am lined up on the basket as I approach the basket goes under me almost everytime. It's frustrating as hell.

 

The advantage in the Hog is the boom will come to you to a degree and that helps. But the drogue is just there and you have to hit it.

 

I even watched a guy get all the tanker the first he ever tried refueling in DCS. I wanted to throw something at the monitor! It turns out he was a former fighter pilot, BUT STILL!!

 

I have watched as many videos as possible and they make it look sooooooooo easy. Have they beat their brains out like I am doing now?

 

"Yeah, stabilize behind the basket a few feet then nudge the throttle to engage it. There it is....(birds are singing in the background). Now, remember to make tiny movements on the stick and throttle to maintain position." (Yeah, at the atomic level!!!!)

 

Can someone please help me out here? I'll send a track if I have to (and someone show me how). I consider myself a decent pilot (after all, I have logged many hours in a real aircraft) and this is just a huge kick in the balls to my pride. Honestly, it is curved up in a fetal position crying for Mommy right now.

System Specs:

AMD 5950X (liquid-cooled), Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Pro Motherboard, 32 GB RAM DDR4 3200MHz, Samsung Evo 970 Plus 2 TB, Seagate 2TB SSD, Geforce RTX 4080 GPU, Rosewill Glacier 1000W Power Supply, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (Stick, Throttle), Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals, NaturalPoint TrackIR 5 w/ProClip, (1) Vizio 40" 4K Monitor, TPLink Dual Band Wireless Card, Window 11 OS

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youre not lined up with the basket if it keeps going under you lmao

 

remember that you'll gain altitude when increasing power, so when lining up for the basket you want to be below it a little so that you float up and into it as you add power

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A few tips:

 

* The S-3 is the hardest. Use the KC130 instead.

* Forget all the stuff you read about aligning something on your HUD with something on the tanker. Just get behind and focus on the refueling pod.

* Make sure you can comfortably fly just behind the refueling pod. Turn off wake turbulence while you are still learning.

* Once you are ready move forward. Closure speed is important. I find around 5-7 knots faster is better rather than creeping forward.

* keep watching the pod and use your peripheral vision to put your probe in the chute

* if it looks like you're going to miss, don't try to correct. Just back off, stablise behind the tanker and try again.

* once you connect, bring the throttles back and you should focus just on staying behind the pod.

* You'll be constantly making small corrections and corrections to your corrections. If you drift right, bring it back left, but start correcting that correction almost immediately. Same applies with throttle.

* I found short (no more than 30 minutes) but daily practice to be more beneficial than longer but less infrequent sessions. Law of diminishing returns apply here.

 

Finally, if you have the $$, I'd highly recommend a VR headset. Doesn't make it easy, but it is a lot easier as you can feel your speed and space in 3D relative to the tanker. FWIW it also makes formation flying, dog fighting and carrier landings easier as well.

 

Hope this helps.

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Small, small inputs. Smaller than you think you need. Focus on the tanker, keeping the refueling package (what the hose comes out of) right in the top right corner of the hud glass, between the two panes.

 

I know you know all this... but knowing and doing are 2 different things, as I know from my own experience lol.

 

Another question is what kind of stick and throttle you're using, and if there's any latent control inputs coming from that? The reason I ask is your comment about being unable to trim wings level. For years, I used a $50 Thrustmaster hotas and enjoyed it, but always had the same experience you describe in DCS - I could never *quite* get it trimmed wings level. Plus there was a dead zone of random size - it varied with every input. I got to where I *could* refuel, but it always took several attempts.

 

Then recently I finally splurged on a Warthog stick and throttle. I've been blown away at how much better the plane flies. I can trim her up, let go of the stick, and she's on rails. There is no dead zone I can feel at all... the slightest pressure affects a flight path change. It actually feels like flying a real aircraft. I typically plug the basket on my first approach now, and remain plugged until I get all my gas.

 

The moral is *not* "spend money, it fixes all your problems" lol...I flew several sims for years with that old hotas and enjoyed it. But this new setup has shown me that my old stick (and probably throttle) had variable dead zones, and clearly often maintained slight control inputs when centered. I never popped up the control monitor, and maybe the degree to which this happened was so slight that it wouldn't have shown up anyway; I mean, I could fly and land just fine. But it sure was apparent during refueling... I never realized how much until switching to a setup that doesn't do it.

 

Anyway, just a thought.

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Then recently I finally splurged on a Warthog stick and throttle. I've been blown away at how much better the plane flies. I can trim her up, let go of the stick, and she's on rails. There is no dead zone I can feel at all... the slightest pressure affects a flight path change. It actually feels like flying a real aircraft. I typically plug the basket on my first approach now, and remain plugged until I get all my gas.

 

The moral is *not* "spend money, it fixes all your problems" lol...I flew several sims for years with that old hotas and enjoyed it. But this new setup has shown me that my old stick (and probably throttle) had variable dead zones, and clearly often maintained slight control inputs when centered. I never popped up the control monitor, and maybe the degree to which this happened was so slight that it wouldn't have shown up anyway; I mean, I could fly and land just fine. But it sure was apparent during refueling... I never realized how much until switching to a setup that doesn't do it.

 

Anyway, just a thought.

 

There will always be someone who pops up and says they can refuel using an xbox controller but having a good HOTAS setup is a good investment. While the entry cost is high, given the hundreds of hours I've played DCS on my warthog, it's been good value for money.

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I've been flying with TM Warthog Stick and Throttle since I built my gaming system. They are good sticks, but maybe too good.

System Specs:

AMD 5950X (liquid-cooled), Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Pro Motherboard, 32 GB RAM DDR4 3200MHz, Samsung Evo 970 Plus 2 TB, Seagate 2TB SSD, Geforce RTX 4080 GPU, Rosewill Glacier 1000W Power Supply, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (Stick, Throttle), Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals, NaturalPoint TrackIR 5 w/ProClip, (1) Vizio 40" 4K Monitor, TPLink Dual Band Wireless Card, Window 11 OS

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Thanks for the tips. I'm a little embarrassed to be asking. After all, I can hit the tanker on the Hog. Why not this?

System Specs:

AMD 5950X (liquid-cooled), Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Pro Motherboard, 32 GB RAM DDR4 3200MHz, Samsung Evo 970 Plus 2 TB, Seagate 2TB SSD, Geforce RTX 4080 GPU, Rosewill Glacier 1000W Power Supply, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (Stick, Throttle), Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals, NaturalPoint TrackIR 5 w/ProClip, (1) Vizio 40" 4K Monitor, TPLink Dual Band Wireless Card, Window 11 OS

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Thanks for the tips. I'm a little embarrassed to be asking. After all, I can hit the tanker on the Hog. Why not this?

 

There could be something to that as well. Being a real-world pilot, you've probably caught yourself applying habits from one airplane to another, with not always great results ;). Maybe you've just been so used to the Hog that you've got more "unlearning" to do? I don't know, the Hornet is all I use, but just another thought.

 

After being away from work for almost two months at the beginning of Covid (and discovering and flying a lot of DCS), on my first trip back at work I caught myself making almost continuous, small, quick throttle adjustments down final. Works good to get aboard a carrier (in DCS anyway)... works less well in a 737. :D

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well its just a different aircraft with different input response characteristics. chief among them its a relaxed stability design and even though it settles for 1g flight, it's gonna be more ready to depart from that state than an inherently stable design like the a-10. you may not have learned to apply counterinput flying the a-10 since inherent stability 'automatically' applies it and that's why you're developing pio in the hornet.


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I have been struggling through refueling in the hornet for weeks as well. I posted a not-well-received advice in a thread to use the dampening qualities of the autopilot as an aid.

 

Anyway I have been working towards AAR with no autopilot and for me the answer was that I needed to clean and lubricate my x52 pro. I was getting more sticktion than I thought at small inputs. I play with curvature at 15 btw.

Last night after cleaning the stick I got contact during a turn for the first time ever. With no AP aid. And I kept contact for a full 75% fill up. And I managed to actually do that twice.

 

My advice is... When you get pissed off, take a break.

Evaluate other causes of your issues (old sticking joystick?)

I prefer a 3-4 knot approach speed.

Generally focusing something on the tanker that intersects the HUD at the +10 degree ladder is what works for me.

Trim up very carefully before going in. Null stick input and monitor changes in roll and pitch (via altitude). This helped me immensely. Make sure you trim at the speed and altitude you'll be contacting. I just do it right before starting my approach.

 

I'm sure you know these things but it's worth mentioning. I cant tell you how many times I've rage shot down the tanker in the practice mission. It gets better the more you get a feel for the plane and just know that you'll get it eventually. But practicing while angry won't get you there!

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Best advice I can give was given above. Do NOT look directly at the drogue. Look at the pod on the hose is attached to and stabilize that. Your peripheral vision will take you in. Very small adjustments are necessary. There is also a very slight lag in the FBW aircraft you only notice if you've flown a lot in non-FBW aircraft (like the Hog, Viggen, Harrier), and that can throw you off quite a bit and lead you to oscillate like crazy.

 

Also, do NOT forget to call "ready pre-contact" and do NOT proceed unless you hear "cleared contact" from the tanker. Else, the drogue will not be engagable no matter what you do, your probe will simply clip through it. This something you don't do in the boom-fueled aircraft. Don't ask me how I know this.

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I CAN'T DO IT! I JUST CAN'T DO IT. Refueling the Hornet is nearly impossible at this point!

 

I have flown the Hog for years and decided to transition to fast-movers. And yeah, it was hard to refuel on the Hog, but I was able to stabilize and hold station to get some gas. I had read where many people thought the Hog was the hardest plane to AAR. I had been doing it for a while and thought the Hornet would be a cake walk. BUT IT'S NOT, DAMMIT!!! The inputs are so sensitive that I can't be delicate enough to get the thing in the thing.

 

I make it a point to come in from work and fly the refueling mission with S-3 in the Persian Gulf a few times a week. And every time, I give up after running out of fuel a couple times and go bomb the crap out of something. But most of the time, I'm mad and I don't want to fly anymore which is sad. Because, I love flying in DCS so much. But the truth is, if I can't get on the tanker then I am not going to be mission effective. That's the cold, hard truth.

 

In the Hog, I had some visual points that I focused on through the HUD, but it seems there is nothing that I can find to use as a reference other than the S-3 tanker looking out the canopy (nothing I can use as reference through the HUD).

 

I tried all my tricks from the Hog:

1. Un-couple the throttle and walk it up.

2. Stabilize some distance back (this is my biggest problem, the plane WILL NOT FLY LEVEL) I trim, and trim some more, and trim again, but it keeps wanting to slide off to the left or the right. I cannot get the tanker static in the canopy. It is always moving a little bit.

3. I even flattened out my pitch and roll curves to 35 thinking that would dampen my movements, but no joy.

4. I attempt to keep the hose vertical in front of me, but the plane has a mind of its own.

 

It also seems I am lined up on the basket as I approach the basket goes under me almost everytime. It's frustrating as hell.

 

The advantage in the Hog is the boom will come to you to a degree and that helps. But the drogue is just there and you have to hit it.

 

I even watched a guy get all the tanker the first he ever tried refueling in DCS. I wanted to throw something at the monitor! It turns out he was a former fighter pilot, BUT STILL!!

 

I have watched as many videos as possible and they make it look sooooooooo easy. Have they beat their brains out like I am doing now?

 

"Yeah, stabilize behind the basket a few feet then nudge the throttle to engage it. There it is....(birds are singing in the background). Now, remember to make tiny movements on the stick and throttle to maintain position." (Yeah, at the atomic level!!!!)

 

Can someone please help me out here? I'll send a track if I have to (and someone show me how). I consider myself a decent pilot (after all, I have logged many hours in a real aircraft) and this is just a huge kick in the balls to my pride. Honestly, it is curved up in a fetal position crying for Mommy right now.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=275326

Banned by cunts.

 

apache01.png

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As mentioned before, start with the KC130 and KC135. What also helps (well at least for me) is to set the tanker speed fairly low at 230kts. This way your stick inputs have lesser impact.

 

And don't forget.. after maybe carrier landings, AAR is pretty much the hardest thing to do in DCS, so don't be to hard on yourself.

 

Playing on a 2D pancake doesn't help you either. I pretty sure I wouldn't be able to properly AAR most of my modules either, if I had to do it on a 2D screen. It would probably also result in me posting something here with many exclamation marks :smilewink:

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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I think it matters whether you’re in VR or not. I suspect a lot of the tips you can read or watch for one apply much less to the other.

I also learned A10 before Hornet, and found the Hornet much harder. I wouldn’t call myself an expert in either, but one thing I found made it easier was just not worrying about the ‘tiny inputs’ advice on the throttle. Not saying I’d ram the thing back and forth, but I had a tendency to undershoot with throttle inputs and drift back too far. I then started to intentionally overshoot then bring it back to a lesser deflection a second later. I found this meant I could think a little less about the throttle and gave me more bandwidth for the stick inputs. I have noticed my throttle hand moving less recently, so maybe it was just something I needed while learning. Might be worth a try since you have tried everything else!

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Dont focus on AAR and dont force it.

Just include AAR on your normal flight schedule. Hit the tanker on every flight. Try 2-3 relaxed connects and if no success, leave it alone for today. This way you wont burn yourself out and wont cramp like crazy (Aka buidling up bad habits).

 

Success should come quickly and shortly after it will be routine in a week and you can proceede to night und bad weather tanking.

 

IMHO Hornet is easier to refuel than the Hog, since the freaking boom AI wont cross my plans :)

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I think it matters whether you’re in VR or not. I suspect a lot of the tips you can read or watch for one apply much less to the other.

I also learned A10 before Hornet, and found the Hornet much harder. I wouldn’t call myself an expert in either, but one thing I found made it easier was just not worrying about the ‘tiny inputs’ advice on the throttle. Not saying I’d ram the thing back and forth, but I had a tendency to undershoot with throttle inputs and drift back too far. I then started to intentionally overshoot then bring it back to a lesser deflection a second later. I found this meant I could think a little less about the throttle and gave me more bandwidth for the stick inputs. I have noticed my throttle hand moving less recently, so maybe it was just something I needed while learning. Might be worth a try since you have tried everything else!

 

 

actually using vr is alot easier since i had so much trouble would take forever ever to connect, now usually now i can connect on 2 attempts even at night which is more of a challenge

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I had exactly this problem. Almost gave up ... but then had a complete "reset" and worked out why. Within an hour or so I'd cracked it - after months of frustration. I'm in the process of producing a video that might help. Until then, here's the script -

 

Hardware. There’s quite a range of sticks and throttles out there with a wide range of characteristics. I have the Thrustmaster Warthog. In theory, this is the kit to have. Well made, accurate … but with some qualities that (I thought) might affect my ability to refuel. Whatever your hardware, be aware that you will be making very subtle, gentle movements to get into position. We don’t have the feedback that you get from flying a real jet – we’re relying on a huge spring for feedback. I’ve always thought the Warthog stick had quite a stiff action and have tried to reduce the tension. But In the end, it didn’t seem to help so it’s back to standard. Whatever hardware you use, you should be used to it and it should be in a position where your arm is comfortable and can operate in a relaxed fashion. Make sure it is calibrated properly.

 

Ideally, you want a stick with as little noise at idle as possible so that your dead zones can be as small as possible. The bigger your dead zones, the more you’re going to have to move the stick before anything happens. Set it as low as you can. A good way to tell if you’ve set it too low is to try to set the F18 barometric hold with the autopilot active. If it won’t set, it’s detecting too much noise around the joystick centre points so you need to increase the dead zones. I use 1 for roll and 2 for pitch.

 

You’ll find differing opinions about curves. I’ve seen people go as high as 20 while others recommend no curve at all. Once again, if you set your curve parameters too high, you’ll end up moving your stick more. 15 seems a popular value. I find the pitch axis twitchier than roll, so I use a curve of 10 in pitch and no curve for roll but try 10 in both.

 

It’s just as important to make sure your thrust levers are set up and calibrated. You need to be working these A LOT so make sure they’re well located and have a predictable response. I use a custom curve 0-6-19-25-35-43-57-67-80-90-100. Ignore the wiggly line you get – it works!

 

I don’t touch the rudders during refuelling – I keep my feet off. It’s easy to make a small movement where none is needed.

 

Creating Your Training Ground. You need to find or make a simple mission with a tanker where you can hone your skills. Use the KC135 tanker. It is trickier to connect and refuel with the tanker in a turn so in your mission editor, create the tanker and then set it a waypoint a LONG way away – you want to be practicing in straight line in the first instance. Set it to orbit between your two waypoints – or even simply fly one long straight line! Select 18000 feet as its assigned altitude and 300 knots for the groundspeed – which will be about 230 knots of indicated airspeed. Remember to assign your tanker a TACAN frequency so you can find it! Make sure you have no wind or turbulence set. Spawn your own aircraft a couple of miles behind the tanker flying in the same direction and at the same altitude. Make sure you head for the port hose – the starboard one won’t work for you in this practice scenario! Alternatively, you can set the tanker to operate over your home base and simply practice the intercept as a “warm up” to refuelling practice. I won’t go over creating this mission in detail as it’s covered in some other videos but the one by 104th Maverick tells you all you need to know.

 

(

)

 

Practice. Before you can refuel, you need to have some basic formation flying skills. Spend some time forming at varying distances from the port wing of the tanker. Try to keep the tanker in the same relative position but don’t fly in the tip vortices of the tanker. The key thing here is to establish your reference speed. When you announce your intent to refuel, you’ll be given an approximate altitude and airspeed. These will vary somewhat so, for example, 230 knots will typically give you a reference speed of 225 – the exact match for the tanker. This speed is critical. You’ll find that in turns, the speed is a knot or two slower. You can practice this formation flying at any time and without the basket deployed. You need to trim the aircraft out in all axes so that you’re flying in formation with little or no correction. Oh, and make sure your flap switch is set to Auto or you’ll suddenly get flap extension along with the associated nose up pitching moment.

 

A crucial thing to practice is throttle control. You need to be able to settle at your reference speed. Then you need to move forward a little and hold, then drop back and hold. To move forward, be quite firm and rapid with your thrust lever movement and increase your IAS to your reference speed plus 2 knots. We’ll call this your advance speed. Don’t gradually increase thrust, give it a small kick, then return the thrust levers to their original position. You need to be able to notch up to advance speed, then with a similarly rapid aft movement of the thrust levers, stop at that speed. Now, reverse the procedure. Go for your reference speed -2 knots (which we’ll call your retreat speed) and drop back. Now get back to your reference speed. The transitions should be quite brisk. Keep practicing these forward and backward adjustments and holding. You should be moving your thrust levers firmly to move it forward, back to keep it at that speed, then similarly firm reduction to slow to your retreat speed, then back to reference speed. You will find the trust response much slower if you are heavy and with lots of draggy stores on the pylons. You can practice this while flying behind the basket …. BUT don’t get distracted by trying to connect with the tanker at this time. You need to get used to these precise positional movements.

 

 

 

 

 

Connection! You can creep up to the basket from astern and a little below. Use your advance speed. DON’T try to connect at this time – we need to get close enough to the basket to get “Cleared Contact” from the tanker. IF YOU KEEP GETTING “RETURN PRE-CONTACT” FROM THE TANKER, YOU NEED TO GET CLOSER. UNLESS YOU HAVE THE “CLEARED CONTACT” MESSAGE FROM THE TANKER, YOU WILL NEVER GET A CONNECTION. Get close to the basket, then return to your reference speed. Once you have “CLEARED CONTACT”, move to retreat speed and drop back a little. Let yourself settle at reference speed. Keep formation. Keep the FPV level in the HUD. There is plenty of advice to not watch the basket but when I perform my approach, my focus is firmly on the basket. Find out what suits you. Right, let’s try it out. Keep yourself in position at your reference speed. Now, move to your advance speed. No more, no less. You will creep up to the basket at a constant speed. Using gentle movements, guide the probe toward the basket. Use very small movements and remember, the moment you have made a control input, you will need to use the opposite control input to get straight and level again. Keep that advance speed. If you miss, keep the FPV straight and level and hit your retreat speed (reference minus 20), then stabilise again at reference speed. Settle, hit your advance speed, gently guide the probe. Repeat until you get contact.

 

The moment you get contact, you need to slow rapidly to reference speed. Keep the FPV in the zone. You’ll probably disconnect a few times – staying connected in formation takes practice. That’s OK. With a little practice, you can connect at, back off rapidly to Ref … then tune your fore and aft position – often you’ll need to drop back a little. Use Ref -1 or ref +1. Pick a visual point of reference on the fuselage of the tanker to monitor to monitor your position fore and aft. You’ll be doing a lot of thrust lever shuffling - all the time keeping that FPV nailed. When you get this far, you’ve cracked it. It’s time to simply keep practicing!

 

What was I doing wrong? OK so the road to Damascus moment was changing my approach technique. I was very gradually creeping up on the basket, often stopping with the probe a few feet from the basket, waggling the stick and waiting for the moment to creep forward and connect. MISTAKE. All the time you’re flying at the same speed very close to the basket, you’ll be trying to steer the probe but without making any progress. You’ll end up chasing the basket and getting into an oscillation. Drop back. Get stable. NOW hit your advance speed (ref plus 2) and fly the probe into the basket – DON’T loiter at the point of connection waiting for the right moment to creep forward. If you miss, hit your retreat speed, drop back and stabilise at reference speed.

 

You may find that, when connected, your reference speed is often 1 knot slower than when you try to connect. Remember to make sure you have “CLEAR CONTACT” and don’t fly up into the tip vortices of the tanker. Expect to only maintain a connection for a few seconds to start with BUT you have connected …. And that means you can practice. Keeping the connection just needs practice. After a few days, I can connect and take fuel 80% of the time – even in turns now. NO more shooting down the tanker!

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I flew the A-10C a lot and some observation to compare AAR to the Hornet

The principals may seem different they they aren’t. It’s the same technique you mastered before so it will translate.

 

The A-10 is very easy to line up because you have this symmetrical view of the tanker and a nice “sight picture”. The drogue tankers are off center compared to what you are used to. Don’t look at the basket! Use the pod on the wing as your focus and only keep the basket in your peripheral vision. When I first tried the F-18 I had the tendency to drift towards the tanker because my eyes were following it and my plane was following my eyes. Just stay focused on the pod and keep everything else in your peripheral vision.

 

Trimming. You don’t need to trim the F-18, in Auto flaps mode this is automatic.

 

Yes it’s harder to connect because you need to meet the drogue exactly instead of having it connected for you. But it’s easier to stay connected, in fact the challenge there is you can get a bit sloppy holding there.

 

Wake turbulence. Approach the tanker in the correct way, below and on its’ left side. Don’t fly directly behind it and keep lower, you won’t hit the wake. You have to be centered on it in order to give the F1 “ready” command and then move out over to the side you’ll connect to.

 

Some other helpful advice is:

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

If I ever screw up it’s because I was looking at the basket, It hangs so temptingly in front of you... begging you to loo at it

But...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket! :joystick:


Edited by SharpeXB
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@ouseler

 

I can tell the level of frustration you are experiencing simply by the title of your post being in all caps followed by a bunch of exclamation marks. This may sound silly but one of the most important factors for AAR is your head space. AAR is already very stressful & extremely challenging so going into it with a clear mind is very useful.

 

Next: you can watch all the Youtube videos on AAR & take in all the advise coming your way which is no doubt very helpful, BUT the one true path that will get you to successfully complete AAR in an F/A-18 Hornet is practice.

 

Took me nine days of just logging into DCS world and working on AAR over and over and over again. Frustration on the first order indeed! But at the end of day I do have an overwhelming sense of accomplishment as I can now complete AAR in an F/A-18 Hornet with my basic T16000 HOTAS.

 

You can do this, believe in yourself & practice.

 

Update this thread with your progress, I would love to read about it!

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There will always be someone who pops up and says they can refuel using an xbox controller but having a good HOTAS setup is a good investment. While the entry cost is high, given the hundreds of hours I've played DCS on my warthog, it's been good value for money.

 

Agreed. And I can't emphasize how much better using VR makes the entire experience. Its so much more natural with you have the depth perception cues.

System HW: i9-9900K @5ghz, MSI 11GB RTX-2080-Ti Trio, G-Skill 32GB RAM, Reverb HMD, Steam VR, TM Warthog Hotas Stick & Throttle, TM F/A-18 Stick grip add-on, TM TFRP pedals. SW: 2.5.6 OB

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I tend to think of AAR as a procedure with two different phases.

 

Phase 1 is pre-contact—how to connect. It’s all about precision flying, equivalent to landing at the exact spot that you plan, in the dead center of the runway with perfect glide slope as well as AOA. If you can do that repeatedly with landing then you should be able to connect. For me the visual cue is everything, I generally place the pod on the top part of the HUD slightly to the right and angle the aircraft so the dangling fuel hose is pointing slightly toward the basket, then creep in. I also look at the basket right before contact to make sure it will go in. You actually do not need absolute precision, the basket will snap on to the probe once it is close enough.

 

Phase 2 is post-contact—how to stay connected. This is pretty much formation flying. My primary visual cue is the pod on the HUD keeping it at the exact same spot. Secondary visual cue is the tanker’s fuselage to determine if my current speed is too fast or slow, relative to the tanker.

 

Regarding the technique for micro adjustments of the stick and throttle you will have to figure that out as we all use different gear and axis settings. A sudden drop in thrust, for example, followed by rapid shift up to the original position can help stabilize the Hornet and prevent significant oscillation if that starts to occur.

 

Just force yourself to practice everyday and it will happen eventually.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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SUCCESS!!

 

This time the CAPS and exclamation points are in celebration!

 

The difference maker for me was turning off WAKE TURBULENCE. First, I didn't realize I had it on and secondly in made the Hornet much more stable. Of course, I am a real world pilot and this is technically a cheat, but "baby steps". Eventually, I'll ween myself off and feel like a real man, lol.

 

I still get wonky if I let my mind wander and then I have to fall back a little to reset.

 

Granted, I was on the tanker for maybe 45 seconds at the longest connection (I've made several now), but it was glorious! Now I am noticing that the basket wants to float a little if I get too close and too far. The tanker is saying "contact" several times during these evolutions and I am trying to find the sweet spot to stay fully engaged. But hey, it's a quantum leap better than it was just the other day.

 

Thanks guys for all your input and advice. It is all very helpful. My wife happened by and I showed her the response I got from reaching out about AAR and she was amazed at the people willing to help someone in need. The DCS community has always taken care of each other. Honestly, we need a WHOLE lot more of that right now.

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System Specs:

AMD 5950X (liquid-cooled), Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Pro Motherboard, 32 GB RAM DDR4 3200MHz, Samsung Evo 970 Plus 2 TB, Seagate 2TB SSD, Geforce RTX 4080 GPU, Rosewill Glacier 1000W Power Supply, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (Stick, Throttle), Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals, NaturalPoint TrackIR 5 w/ProClip, (1) Vizio 40" 4K Monitor, TPLink Dual Band Wireless Card, Window 11 OS

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