F-14 Release Date Discussion Thread

The MiG-19 from RAZBAM needs to be released before the Tomcat. If the MiG is not here on this Wednesday's OB then the Cat will never be released this month.

Why?

The MiG-19 from RAZBAM needs to be released before the Tomcat. If the MiG is not here on this Wednesday's OB then the Cat will never be released this month.

Are you sure about this?

With full respect for razbam having bought all their plan, if a mig-19 is delaying my tomcat I'm gonna be pissed :)

And I will get the 19 too

Why? F14’s like to play with MiG 19’s.

Early Access - abused release timeline

Hi

Having an interest in the Tomcat since it was announced I still need to ask this question.

What is the plan for the early access path to release?

I am asking this for obvious reasons - like the concept of "early access" being abused by publishers/studios - that is in general, not only in DCS. Is this going to be yet another module that stays in "Early Access" (Work in progress) for years, or is there a plan to have it released, let's say the end of spring 2020?

I am serious - no need to answer with "it will be released when it is ready" as I know this too well, however, if one is asking for funds, one should be transparent as to their plan. We are all investors here after all.

A legitimate question, although I expect you will get beaten up shortly.

This module is probably not one you need to worry about though, as it looks like it's going to be largely feature complete when released into early access anyway.

Hi

Having an interest in the Tomcat since it was announced I still need to ask this question.

 

What is the plan for the early access path to release?

 

I am asking this for obvious reasons - like the concept of "early access" being abused by publishers/studios - that is in general, not only in DCS. Is this going to be yet another module that stays in "Early Access" (Work in progress) for years, or is there a plan to have it released, let's say the end of spring 2020?

 

I am serious - no need to answer with "it will be released when it is ready" as I know this too well, however, if one is asking for funds, one should be transparent as to their plan. We are all investors here after all.

If you are not comfortable purchasing without planned dates for completion of EA, I think the obvious answer is to not purchase until a firm date on the end of EA is provided.

It has been said that the Tomcat will release in a more complete state than other modules. However, unless someone from Heatblur tells you differently, no one can put a firm date on when it will be complete. This isn't about shirking transparency, but simply that any date someone gives will be a guess.

It is usual for modules to stay in EA longer than 12 months. Again, the philosophy of the release of the 'Cat seems different than other modules, but personally I would say you should be prepared for it to be in EA for up to two years, as with any other recent EA module.

A legitimate question, although I expect you to get beaten up shortly.

 

This module is probably not one you need to worry about though, as it looks like it's going to be largely feature complete when released into early access anyway.

:)

But I get a T-Shirt right. :D

As a first comment I would say that the thread title is a little bit inflammatory - but I do think there is a legitimate concern / query regarding how release / early access etc is handled.

I would second the query to try and understand what exactly the terms mean at this point, as clearly this is not a hard and fast rule set by ED and is left more to discretion.

Putting aside past target release dates and just going with the current "Winter 2019" there is still a question of what this means when clearly there are content creators on YouTube and apparently entire online squadrons who have either been gifted or have paid for early access to the F-14 and have already received it.

Clearly there is some form of gating process to the release and we could argue that perhaps these users are in some form of alpha test, where the general consumer paying for "Early Access" is only included at the point of beta testing, but again, this has not been clearly stated by Heatblur.

There is also a second debate over companies abusing the "early access" moniker to simply release broken software. Based on what we are seeing in the various youtube videos it would seem the module is already far past that point.

My own "Early Access" criteria falls somewhere between EDs F-18 and the current F-14 strategy, I was not necessarily expecting feature complete, both cockpits, AA, AG LANTIRN etc. At the point where without any showstopping bugs you can fly the F-14 with jester, even with limited weapons options (AA only for example) I would consider that ready for "Early Access".

I do understand the need for polish and the desire to not have any major issues post release but that is simply not feasible with software going to potentially thousands of end users - the module could be polished for another 6 months and still find that there are some BSOD type issues with certain hardware / software / input combinations - and again - this is where my own definition of "Early Access" comes into play.

Based on my own experience I would rather have a more feature limited release (MVP in my own domain speak) that is in the wild and in use by a broad user base to build new features on top of, than have one huge big bang release with every single feature being tested and broken at once. I would rather make sure my MVP is solid and that we were not developing more and more features on quick-sand.

Again all of this is my opinion and interpretation, but my underlying question is can we tease out exactly what Heatblur interprets all of this as.

I think experience to date is showing that with such a small dedicated team we are clearly getting a dream module, built to entirely new and excitingly high standards but without the resources to down tools and properly communicate the planned direction of travel along with the current status of delivery to a very passionate and excited group of stakeholders.

my interpretation of Early access would be what the "YouTubers" have now. The ability to start learning the jet while other things are still in a WIP state.

I personally wouldn't mind having the jet while the back seat is being worked on, it would seem that there is enough content currently (in the front seat) to allow people to have access to the jet.

I also personally get a little annoyed that "YouTubers" get to have the aircraft before the regular people that have paid for it, like myself. but that is just my personal opinion.

Thanks Specter

I'm sure you should expect a minimum of 2 years since that's what we Viggen customers are at now.

I would expect the 14 to be more complex and with the viggens neverending bug/bugfix/bugisback/and-so-on maybe way longer than 2 years.

Keep in mind, once you've given them your money it is nothing but a brutal cost to fix features and too late for you to walk away.

Don't buy it in early access. That's the only way to make your opinion heard.

Don't buy it in early access. That's the only way to make your opinion heard.

+1. Frankly speaking to be fair, as long as the never ending early access is an issue I don't understand what the OP wants to achieve. Be realistic, there has been so many things said about EA that everyone should already be able to make out what are the disadvantages and advantages of it - as for the individual consumer and for the whole industry.

Do you really believe yet another post will change a whole industry approach? Like it - buy it, don't buy to pass the message. If you don't believe how strong "don't buy" is just look on some AAA titles like BFV.

As for the DCS however, consider it's a bit different scenario where the development is quite often done by hobbyists. Flight simulators are really complex, most probably the most complex "games" to gather material, build up expertise and finally to program. On the other hand the customer base is relatively small. I think the EA model was the only one possible to make DCS grow and we should really appreciate that ED and 3'rd party devs overall, from a high level perspective are doing an amazing job steadily keeping the platform evolving in such a difficult environment.

Was there a need for another “can I have it now please” thread?

I totally agree with the opinions here exposed.

I want to add that Heatblur will do an excellent job but I believe this is not the right marketing strategy. There is a thin line between excitement, teasing, anger and frustration and as everyone is different there can be different outputs. HB can't please anyone. Even if this is about the full release.

I also would like them to hear us for future releases because many people are silent, not wanting to be "punched in their onlince faces" for "attacking HB and his strategy" and we, we are all customers. This release is already set in stone but I hope they come up, if there is, with a better strategy in the future.

It's surprising we don't have a comment here with irony against the OP

I do hope the prepurchasing option won't last 6 months or this will be the norm and in the future we will be buying planes even before they are announcend. This can benefict the compnay? yes. This can be also be enfuriating? Yes. Can we vote with our wallet? Yes.

Hype is a double-edged sword

Was there a need for another “can I have it now please” thread?

Next time you might want to read what is actually being said; he is asking a question what is going to happen AFTER it is released into Early Access.

HAHA

The devil is in the detail. How many bugs, what features aren't suitably refined for an individuals taste is absolutely not declared yet in public.

I'm not sure this type of detail is useful for forums, it's not even exactly known by Heatblur, they are still working hard. It would be far easier to await a sensible review from RedKite on those details, rather than the glossy marketing style of the existing You Tubers or the very carefully coordinated visual marketing we've seen.

There's no doubt of the commitment made, for sure. But all the things I was personally interested in like radar, crewing and multiplayer have not been shown. That's half the plane, or from my own view, 100% of what I'm interested in.

So far the things that have been shown are pretty, but I know how marketing works and I'm resisting the hype train. Marketing shows the good things, if it's no good it's not shown. What has not been shown working?

HAHA

 

Reading comprehension is hard.

 

... if one is asking for funds, one should be transparent as to their plan. We are all investors here after all.

Noone is asking for funds, and you are not an investor, but a consumer. Buy it in EA if impatient and live with the bugs, or wait until release if you are unsure.

I totally agree with the opinions here exposed.

 

I want to add that Heatblur will do an excellent job but I believe this is not the right marketing strategy. There is a thin line between excitement, teasing, anger and frustration and as everyone is different there can be different outputs. HB can't please anyone. Even if this is about the full release.

 

I also would like them to hear us for future releases because many people are silent, not wanting to be "punched in their onlince faces" for "attacking HB and his strategy" and we, we are all customers. This release is already set in stone but I hope they come up, if there is, with a better strategy in the future.

It's surprising we don't have a comment here with irony against the OP

 

I do hope the prepurchasing option won't last 6 months or this will be the norm and in the future we will be buying planes even before they are announcend. This can benefict the compnay? yes. This can be also be enfuriating? Yes. Can we vote with our wallet? Yes.

 

Hype is a double-edged sword

No, not me at the least.

Next time you might want to read what is actually being said; he is asking a question what is going to happen AFTER it is released into Early Access.

Next time, you might want to interpret what is actually being said...

While the thread was started in good faith I doubt that an answer will be forthcoming for one simple reason. They don't know. They can only have estimates at this point, and with all the missed early-access dates with the Tomcat I doubt that they will release those to the public for obvious reasons.

What Heatblur has PROMISED though is a "mostly" feature complete F14B on March 20th (and maybe even before that if we are lucky) and the F14A at some point in the following year. If you can live with that (I know I can) thats fine, but if you want a feature complete and mostly bug free program then all you have to do is look at the state of all the "released" modules in DCS in general and ask yourself in what time frame is it realistic to expect a mostly bug free and feature complete F14?

I'd say this is absolutely the last place where you can do something wrong with buying early access. Just to put a quote from one of the CCs:

"[...] as is right now (RIO aside) it feels pretty much completed. The RIO will be the final big thing to finish, and some polishing for Jester. [...] But the jet as it stands right now is more feature complete than ANY 3rd party early access module that was released to date."

~ RD 2019-01-27

I've seen different stories already. Like a game that I had promised to get alpha and beta access before release. There was a backer alpha they called beta like one and a half year before release. No backer ever had an actual beta version. But well, luckily it turned out to be a good piece of software nevertheless.

I totally wouldn't mind getting the MiG-19 after the Tomcat