Fox 1 and fox 3 missiles detection

I am totally puzzled

How is a targeted plane alerted of a Fox 1 type missile launch? To my understanding, the RWS alerts the pilot when an hostile radar is locked at him/her. But this locking phase happens prior to the launch. How can the RWS know the missile has been actually launched?

Conversely, a Fox 3 type missile has its own radar tracking system, and the target plane should get a warning only when the missile has locked. However it seems that in DCS, at least to my experience, the missile is detected as soon as it is launched.

What sort of witchcraft is that? Or is there anything I don't understand? (I am a beginner so feel free to lecture me)

People feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe RWRs can pick up on the command launch from the hostile aircraft.

With the active missiles, when they are launched in TWS mode, the target will not receive the launch warning until the missile goes pit-bull as like you said. When a target is locked in STT they will receive the warning as soon as its fired. SARH missiles are unable to be guided outside of STT mode, hence the warning as soon as its fired. Someone with better knowledge of radar modes etc will be able to explain further.

FOX 1 is only detectable by a MAWS. A Missile Aproach Warning System. It detects the actual launch by seeing it. The A-10C is the only player controlled aircraft equiped with such a system right now.

Enemies get a Lock warning as soon as you put the radar in STT ( Single Target Track, e.g. Lock on ). They get a launch warning as soon as the missiles reaches pitbull.

Note that AI kinda cheats. they can see launches from a great amount of aspects, although they appear blind to launches from behind or long range.

I will speak of the F15 as far as i know and some of the experienced guys can correct me if im wrong. In the eagle there are 2 type of LOCK , TWS or RWS . In the first one if you are locked by an F15 operating in TWS you will not get a BUZZ tone of being locked . If the F15 launch a missile at you in that mode you will only get the Launch warning when the missile is at your door ( Pitpull) .

In the other mode RWS if you are being locked by an F15 operating in the RWS mode (SST) you will get the Locked warning the minute you are being locked , If a missile is launched at you in SST im not sure you get the Launch warning right at launch time or at pitpull so im really looking on some of the guys answers on this one .

SARH missiles are unable to be guided outside of STT mode

STT and FLOOD mode can guide SARH Missiles ;)

FOX 1 is only detectable by a MAWS. A Missile Aproach Warning System. It detects the actual launch by seeing it. The A-10C is the only player controlled aircraft equiped with such a system right now.

 

Enemies get a Lock warning as soon as you put the radar in STT ( Single Target Track, e.g. Lock on ). They get a launch warning as soon as the missiles reaches pitbull.

 

Note that AI kinda cheats. they can see launches from a great amount of aspects, although they appear blind to launches from behind or long range.

You do know that a Fox 1 is SARH? Fox 2 is infra-red. Most fighter aircraft (that i know of) have abilities to detect Fox 1 launches from the point they are fired.

STT and FLOOD mode can guide SARH Missiles

Yet another radar mode. Flood may as well be STT for my purpose I'm explaining. The difference with Flood Mode is I believe they will get a launch warning as soon as the target is 'flooded' / getting painted, even if a missile hasn't been launched.

FOX 1 is only detectable by a MAWS. A Missile Aproach Warning System. It detects the actual launch by seeing it. The A-10C is the only player controlled aircraft equiped with such a system right now.

 

Enemies get a Lock warning as soon as you put the radar in STT ( Single Target Track, e.g. Lock on ). They get a launch warning as soon as the missiles reaches pitbull.

 

Note that AI kinda cheats. they can see launches from a great amount of aspects, although they appear blind to launches from behind or long range.

I agree on the AI cheating

However I am quite sure I get Fox 1 missile warnings when flying in SU-27 and F-15. I mean, most of long range missiles are Fox 1, and I receive tons of long range missile warnings and I can hardly believe they are all Fox 3...

Su27 has no active missiles. The F15 has the 120s. The migs have theirs but I don't know Russian weapons to be able to name it.

Su27 has no active missiles. The F15 has the 120s. The migs have theirs but I don't know Russian weapons to be able to name it.

Sorry I was unclear. I was talking about when I am the target of I missile

FOX 1 is only detectable by a MAWS. A Missile Aproach Warning System. It detects the actual launch by seeing it. The A-10C is the only player controlled aircraft equiped with such a system right now.

I think the M2000 has a MWS as well.

You will get a launch warning almost 100% of the time with Fox 1 launches as you have to be 'locked' (think STT) by the hostile radar. You will not receive warnings for Fox3 launches until the missile goes pit-bull unless the hostile aircraft has you 'locked' (radar is in STT).

Flood mode mentioned above is different from STT as the radar beam is point forward of the aircraft at all times. STT mode, the radar focuses its energy on the target and will move withing the gimbal limits to hold the lock.

I think the M2000 has a MWS as well.

Nope

You will get a launch warning almost 100% of the time with Fox 1 launches as you have to be 'locked' (think STT) by the hostile radar. You will not receive warnings for Fox3 launches until the missile goes pit-bull unless the hostile aircraft has you 'locked' (radar is in STT).

 

Flood mode mentioned above is different from STT as the radar beam is point forward of the aircraft at all times. STT mode, the radar focuses its energy on the target and will move withing the gimbal limits to hold the lock.

That is where I am confused. The STT mode is activated after the lock and prior to the launch. When you are locked, the RWS starts making noise, and after a few second you get a "missile" alert. What I don't understand is how the RWS can distinguish the "lock" and the "missile launch"

Nope

See attached screenshot.

That is where I am confused. The STT occurs after the lock and prior to the launch. When you are locked, the RWS starts making noise, and after a few second you get a "missile" alert. What I don't understand is how the RWS can distinguish the "lock" and the "missile launch"

I don't have the knowledge to answer this, but I think it has something to do with detection of the beginning of communication between the launching aircraft and missile it just launched. I'll look around and see if I can find a definitive answer.

the launch warning you get from a hostile radar has to do with it's activity state AFAIK

a track that's accurate enough to guide a SARH needs to be suitably intense. your RWR knows what that looks like from that specific targeting radar.

it's probably unrealistically infallible in game.

you might ask "couldn't they just emit the same activity state to fool your RWR into thinking you've been shot, even if they haven't fired?" the answer i believe is "sure" but it's not modeled ingame (unless you count FLOOD?)

I don't have the knowledge to answer this, but I think it has something to do with detection of the beginning of communication between the launching aircraft and missile it just launched. I'll look around and see if I can find a definitive answer.

Well I've got a theory: maybe in STT there is no actual lock, but just a target designation, i.e. the system isolates one radar contact which is locked on only when firing the missile

This is the MWS (Missile Warning System). In DCS right now, the A-10C is the only one aicraft that has this system. (Modules)

I know and I'm pretty sure the M2000 has this as well. Maybe not the exactly the same, but a french MWS. See attached screenshot above.

Nope

Nope on your nope.

It's called D2M (Détecteur Depart Missile)

Nope on your nope.

It's called D2M

Yes, it's french and it stands for Détection de Départ de Missile which means Missile Warning System (MWS) in english...

Yes, sorry for my mistake. I should check the manual, but as I reinstalled the windows, I didn't have it here, but as you can see here the MWS is on the pylons. Interesting

Alright :)

With fox 1's the radar frequency will change and become tied exclusively to the specific missile when it is launched. This is to insure that when multiple aircraft in the same flight for instance launch missiles at seperate aircraft at the same time, their missiles wont accidentally home in on their wingmans target. This change in frequency from STT to launch is detectable by RWR, and hence a launch warning

With fox 1's the radar frequency will change and become tied exclusively to the specific missile when it is launched. This is to insure that when multiple aircraft in the same flight for instance launch missiles at seperate aircraft at the same time, their missiles wont accidentally home in on their wingmans target. This change in frequency from STT to launch is detectable by RWR, and hence a launch warning

That's what I wanted to know, thanks!