Vampyr Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 What the title says. Also, is there any difference between block 50 ANG and block 50 USAF Vipers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted October 22, 2019 ED Team Share Posted October 22, 2019 It is modelled after both, USAF/ANG circa 2007 Blk 50. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Also, is there any difference between block 50 ANG and block 50 USAF Vipers? There are always going to be some differences. Each aircraft is updated at a time. Some units might have X amount of aircraft updated to a certain level while the rest wait for Phase time or down time to undergo updates. F-16 in general is in a constant state of upgrades/updates. General speaking, right now, today 22 October 2019, most ANG and USAF F-16C block 50 should be relatively similar. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 There are always going to be some differences. Each aircraft is updated at a time. Some units might have X amount of aircraft updated to a certain level while the rest wait for Phase time or down time to undergo updates. F-16 in general is in a constant state of upgrades/updates. General speaking, right now, today 22 October 2019, most ANG and USAF F-16C block 50 should be relatively similar. Of course, but I meant in terms of "factory spec". In other words, would block 50 ANG and block 50 USAF jets built in 1998 be built to the same spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Of course, but I meant in terms of "factory spec". In other words, would block 50 ANG and block 50 USAF jets built in 1998 be built to the same spec? Factory specs? No differences. AFAIK, all ANG block 50 where used USAF F-16. ANG did receive new built block 50. Just messing around, :D :smartass: It looks like only 3 Block 50 F-16C where ordered in 1998 for the USAF. 98-0003, 98-0004, and 98-0005 96-0080 could be the only one delivered to the USAF in 1998, not sure. Edited October 22, 2019 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 I only used 1998 as an example without know how many F-16 were built or delivered that year. So basically when it comes to factory specs, there's no difference between USAF and ANG block 50 aircraft, because ANG only gets used jets from the USAF, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobaltUK Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) The crew chief comments on those `98 jets were interesting. Even a love/hate relationship with one of them. Edited October 22, 2019 by CobaltUK Windows 7/10 64bit, Intel i7-4770K 3.9GHZ, 32 GB Ram, Gforce GTX 1080Ti, 11GB GDDR5 Valve Index. Force IPD 63 (for the F-16) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) I only used 1998 as an example without know how many F-16 were built or delivered that year. So basically when it comes to factory specs, there's no difference between USAF and ANG block 50 aircraft, because ANG only gets used jets from the USAF, correct? AFAIK, yes, correct. No differences in factory specs. So for example: 92-3915 was the same from the factory even tho it is now part of the ANG The crew chief comments on those `98 jets were interesting. Even a love/hate relationship with one of them. Always a love hate relationship with you aircraft. I remember mine fondly, yet remember cursing at them regularly while working on them. Many smack me around and beat me up, I got the scars to prove it. Edited October 22, 2019 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) BTW I didn't get the joke in you earlier post. Factory specs? No differences. AFAIK, all ANG block 50 where used USAF F-16. ANG did receive new built block 50. Just messing around, :D :smartass: Messing around with what? Lol :P Edited October 23, 2019 by Vampyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk000tch Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I only used 1998 as an example without know how many F-16 were built or delivered that year. So basically when it comes to factory specs, there's no difference between USAF and ANG block 50 aircraft, because ANG only gets used jets from the USAF, correct? Factory spec is kind of a misnomer, they go through mi-life upgrades of various types throughout service. But otherwise blks are the same generally. International have differences, some nations request more options than others. Speaking of which, not trying to start anything here but it’s hard to find data. How many AF blk 50’s still had the (v)5 in 2008? just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Factory spec is kind of a misnomer, they go through mi-life upgrades of various types throughout service. But otherwise blks are the same generally. International have differences, some nations request more options than others. Speaking of which, not trying to start anything here but it’s hard to find data. How many AF blk 50’s still had the (v)5 in 2008? What did radar did they upgrade to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I know this is trivial, bit just throwing it out there. The ANG still falls under the USAF. The money pot is a little different, as well as some nuances to the command structure...but they are not as seperate as what is being kind of inferred here. Again, not that big of a deal, I just know some don’t quite understand where the commonalities/differences lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra99 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1706.html [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigTatanka Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 A Viper dude I went to UPT with told me the differences are more to do with jets stationed stateside vs jets stationed overseas. And for the most part, it seems like a lot of ANG units operate older blocks; that is going to be mission dependent as well. Dances, PhD Jet Hobo https://v65th.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Speaking of which, not trying to start anything here but it’s hard to find data. How many AF blk 50’s still had the (v)5 in 2008? Not sure, RL aircraft manuals like the -34 does not specify. The radars are label as block 40 or block 50, it does not tell you APG versions. Same way the pods are refer to as LANTIRN, or LITENING, etc. It does not say AAQ-28 ver X. It will specify OFP versions or some versions of the pod like LITENING Basic, Litening PNP VCR, etc. One of many reason why a outdated manual does not say much about current capabilities. Vampyr, I was just adding additional info to the conversation, hoping to convey that without appearing as I am trying to correct you which is the way I tent to come across the way that I write, not intentionally. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra99 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The modifications really had nothing to do with "who" was operating the aircraft. The CCIP Program was applied to specific airframes. Blocks 40/42 and Block 50/52. Some units operated earlier blocks and were transitioned to CCIP birds as they became available, other operated Block 50s that became CCIP birds. This like everything else is about money and mission. All CCIP birds are the same...but ANG and Active duty use different bank accounts when buying parts and pieces. It makes sense to have commonality across your fleet. Its not so much, give the old junk to thee guard", but give us all the same airplanes so we don't have to stock so many different parts. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk000tch Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I get that there are manuals available online, but I’m not sure if you all realize what these really look like irl. Aircraft manuals are specific to an aircraft. Supplements come in, with hundreds of pages and detailed instructions like remove pages 342-344 replace with new pages 342-342.2, which coincide with whatever avionics suite, component upgrade, down to the most recent LRU replacement that’s slightly different, and requires a different coolant connection than the 0402x version or whatever did not. Whatever partial manual you’ve found online is a partial snapshot of a bunch of binders where actual documentation details everything on that aircraft, records of all maintenance, logs, and keep a lot of enlisted busy. I mentioned the v(9) because it is a well loved radar in the community not bettered until non-gimbaled active phased arrays became a thing. Off hand the upgrades were substantial increase in detection range at less power, better AG but specifically SAR. The SAR was apparently quite good, fast and high res (1 or 2 ft). Simultaneous tracks in situational awareness modes was increased to 4, and there were improvements in the TWS branch as well. Again, on my phone so going from memory and can’t recall if 5 or 9 had the 9 TWS trackfile + ability to bug 2 targets outside the TWS volume (basically two target sam + a slewable TWS volume). Better sensor integration, so on a cold clear day the ability to discern what’s under the pylons of the mig you’ve got bugged from 30nm out. Not sure whether 5 had... can’t remember name rn, but basically RAID. Just all around better, better track quality in TWS, better ground maps, more jam resistance, mode reliable and easier maintenance (not rly am issue in DCS). DCS also doesn’t really sim responsiveness, when glass cockpits first came out like all computers they could be a little slow, do weird shit, but can’t exactly reboot. But that time period, late 90s to 2007 or so, everything got a lot faster. Short of AESA, it was processing that increased substantially the capability of RWRs, radars, HSDs, etc. so a 10 year newer processor and 10 fold increase in RAM makes a difference, whether in simultaneous tracks or how fast pages come up, etc. Sensors collect infoc but if you can’t process it it doesn’t do you any good. I’m also not sure how much of the MIDS fighter to fighter datalink target sorting, wingman lock lines and launch lines showing who your wingman had locked or their missiles in flight, or the similar capability over link16 from GCI (would be cool online, GCI passing target data to you via datalink). Anyway, not a big deal, I was a little bummed at first... v9 and sniper xr >>> v5 and litening, but really I’m just glad we’ve got a viper to splay with. And not like ED never change their mind. Oh the ANG thing - ANG isn’t flying junk, if I implied that with my question wasn’t my intent. They are different than active though. Guy I’m in a plane partnership with is an ex Oregon redbird,we actually have another redbird and ex-viper guy in our little local group. Acro community is loaded with ex fighter pilots flying big iron now (not exactly a cheap hobby). Anyway, homeland defense units aren’t flying ancient crates but they aren’t first in line for the latest pods or ordinance either. is an important mission but intercepting a Cessna that strayed into some TFR generally doesn’t require the latest IRST upgrade, or 120Ds and block II 9x’s either. It’s somewhat irrelevant anyway, in 2007 our birds were busy, so those guys were all rotating anyway. just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 One thing we finally got on board with was flipping to digital manuals, TOs, etc. There’s still a few, or were a few, that were still kept on paper like EPs for example. For those that have access to the stuff now, it’s one complete book, so the TODAs no longer have to post changes, do pen and inks, page changes, etc. it all comes from a digital library too, so update one and it updates to the current version unless folks are working off downloaded copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradleyjs Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 One thing we finally got on board with was flipping to digital manuals, TOs, etc. There’s still a few, or were a few, that were still kept on paper like EPs for example. For those that have access to the stuff now, it’s one complete book, so the TODAs no longer have to post changes, do pen and inks, page changes, etc. it all comes from a digital library too, so update one and it updates to the current version unless folks are working off downloaded copies. Curious to know if the terminology TCTO is still in use? I was active duty USAF back in the 80’s. Alienware Area 51 R5 - Intel i9 7980XE (4.7 GHz), 32GB Dual Channel HyperX DDR4 XMP, Dual NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Graphics 11GB GDDR5X SLI, 4.5 TB combo of SSDs/HDDs, Alienware 1500 Watt Multi-GPU Power Supply, Alienware 25” 240Hz Gaming Monitor, Alienware Pro Gaming Keyboard, TM HOTAS, TM Cougar F-16C MFDs, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, TrackIR5, Win10 Pro x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Curious to know if the terminology TCTO is still in use? I was active duty USAF back in the 80’s. Yep. TCTO, I-TCTO, OTI...all still used. No reason to change IMO. You’ll still see the TCTO number identifiers in the front of all the manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradleyjs Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Yep. TCTO, I-TCTO, OTI...all still used. No reason to change IMO. You’ll still see the TCTO number identifiers in the front of all the manuals. Excellent! Thanks. :thumbup: Alienware Area 51 R5 - Intel i9 7980XE (4.7 GHz), 32GB Dual Channel HyperX DDR4 XMP, Dual NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Graphics 11GB GDDR5X SLI, 4.5 TB combo of SSDs/HDDs, Alienware 1500 Watt Multi-GPU Power Supply, Alienware 25” 240Hz Gaming Monitor, Alienware Pro Gaming Keyboard, TM HOTAS, TM Cougar F-16C MFDs, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, TrackIR5, Win10 Pro x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk000tch Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 One thing we finally got on board with was flipping to digital manuals, TOs, etc. There’s still a few, or were a few, that were still kept on paper like EPs for example. For those that have access to the stuff now, it’s one complete book, so thes no longer have to post changes, do pen and inks, page changes, etc. it all comes from a digital library too, so update one and it updates to the current version unless folks are working off downloaded copies. That's makes sense, overwhelmingly logical even. Just EPs are hard copy? I've already probably dated myself enough in this thread; and if not, the one where I got all excited when somebody mentioned a T-6 b/c it was first radial engine ac I'd flown)... I do still like paper for long documents just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 That's makes sense, overwhelmingly logical even. Just EPs are hard copy? I've already probably dated myself enough in this thread; and if not, the one where I got all excited when somebody mentioned a T-6 b/c it was first radial engine ac I'd flown)... I do still like paper for long documents I’m not 100% up to speed on the way things are currently. Some things were kept paper as well as having digital versions. 1. Papers don’t crash and don’t need battery power 2. Can be easier to flip through pages in a hurry than to try and scroll through electronically. Probably still a lot of situations where there are both still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra99 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) They are different than active though. No they're not. All of the Block 40/42 and 50/52 aircraft that went through CCIP are the same. A Block 50 CCIP jet being operated by the Duluth MN ANG is exactly the same as a Block 50 CCIP jet being operated by the 55th at Shaw. A block 40 CCIP jet being operated by Sioux Falls if the same as a Block 40 being operated by Pope. Now if you meant some Guard units have different Block aircraft, this is true. Guard units have a mix of Block 15 ADF Block 30 and some have 40 / 42s. The intent of the CCIP program was commonality across 4 blocks of aircraft, The only differences being engines and between the 40/42s and 50/52s the 40 series didn't get the Bird Slicer IFF antennas. This is an excellent article on the different F-16 Blocks. https://preview.tinyurl.com/y2evyf8e Edited October 24, 2019 by Sierra99 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenux Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 How is the flight model? I9 12900k@ 5 GHz | 32 GB DDR4 | Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming Wifi d4| RTX 3090 | 6 TB SSD + 8 TB HDD | 4K Samsung Q90R 55" | VKB MK III PRO L | Virpil Throttle MONGOOST-50 | MFG Crosswind | TrackIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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