If you mastered DCS A-10C, could you hop into the real thing, run it up, and fly it?

Off-T: Brian said, "So I walk into the room and Amanda says, 'oh my god'." [OR] Brian said, "So I walk into the room and Amanda says, 'oh my god.'"

On-T: Can this thread please make like:

P.S. I may PM you a question every now and again Cornbread. Feel free to tell me to p*ss off. Aren't you glad you shared now lol?

sorry if i am late to the party...but in the 'posting' mood i suppose.

my experience was somewhat reversed than others with real flying and sim. i am just now 29 and started flying when i was 13. my first landing attempt resulted in overflying the length of the runway at an altitude of 50ft or so. my second (same day but home field) was successful.

i had done my ground-school and knew my patterns and procedures, and remembered that i had MS flightsim, but had not yet installed it. so i went home, loaded her up and started practicing.

the next lesson (usually did 1/week) i was lining up a million times better and was having no problem with approaches or landings. my instructor was pretty impressed and i told him i practiced at home. then he and i discussed how we both felt that real life was easier than the sim because we could 'feel' what the plane was doing.

i think learning VFR properly first with reference points and so forth, really makes a sim an even more valuable tool...since you then get the added bonus of you 'butt in the seat' as the extra instrument you lack in a sim.

i think after enough hours, ground crew support, etc...i could start-taxi-take-off-fly-land without killing myself. every a-10 pilot i have ever spoken to said they are a dream to fly and are very stick and rudder and responsive to the pilot.

i do not think this applies to fighter aircraft or anything that barely has a wing in comparison! however, assuming the 'just a sim' thing, or 'it is not really accurate, of course!' mentality is only true if you do not accurately apply flight training and skills to it. if you do, you most certainly can increase your knowledge materially.

one other note: myself, along with other RL pilots (commercial and transport military) talk about the accuracy of the flight model of the SU-25t in FC2. naturally none of the gizmo's, systems and sub-systems are very detailed...but in terms of the flight characteristics...we are all impressed and it is a real joy to fly...imo...if you want to prepare a bit for DCS a-10...that is your plane.

It's very intuitive - just watch the Producer's note and you'll be ok. That's part of the fun, the first 'touch' of the Hog, so to speak.

 

Purpose is just to have a benchmark of the start of your journey that you can reflect on in months down the line, akin to your first BS landing (what a mess that was.....) All just good fun! If you over-think things (manual/cheat-start etc etc) it takes the fun out of what is essentially a very daunting task......and as said it replicates the situation of many a tester and the no doubt ensuing mayhem :)

i did exactly this in the KA-50...did not read a thing...study anything...etc (including producer notes)...i just wanted to see if i could start the prepped KA-50...i managed the APU and some of the systems...but other than that...after a good hour...nadda. i love thinking back to that now.

i did exactly this in the KA-50...did not read a thing...study anything...etc (including producer notes)...i just wanted to see if i could start the prepped KA-50...i managed the APU and some of the systems...but other than that...after a good hour...nadda. i love thinking back to that now.

Heh, same here. After downloading BS and load first mission without any study tried to go airborne just by using intuition. Simply was following obvious-electrics, fuel pumps, APU, then i managed to start both engines and was pretty happy. However couldnt understand why i can't go airborne even with maximum collective (?!), glance at rotor rpms - why is so low? Had to go trough manual to find out that have to set up throtle first ;)

Heh, same here. After downloading BS and load first mission without any study tried to go airborne just by using intuition. Simply was following obvious-electrics, fuel pumps, APU, then i managed to start both engines and was pretty happy. However couldnt understand why i can't go airborne even with maximum collective (?!), glance at rotor rpms - why is so low? Had to go trough manual to find out that have to set up throtle first ;)

I commend you guys at least trying to start it up! I remember only having about 15 mins before I had to leave for a few hours to try it out. Instant action button was my friend, didn't even bother to set my controls...just GO!

Flew around for a bit in awe, marveled at how "simple" it was to maintain horizontal flight and generally left after 15 mins feeling pretty good about myself.

Then the next time around I applied producer note startup and found the whole transitional flight experience to be more difficult than I had thought. (happily more difficult hehe :pilotfly:)

Obviously it was ground school and flight school for the next few weeks for me...probably my most satisfying time in the shark. Looking forward to the same in the A-10.

And yes I do like to think "HELL yes" I could fly the real thing after mastering DCS 10...whether that's realistic or not...when I look in the mirror I see a TRUE...

AVIATOR ;)

:joystick:

Hell I went strait to the mission editor to play with that. Boy was that disapointing:cry:. Read the first 3 chapters in the manual and watched the PN's jumped in the pit and did a back flip after startup :doh: :book:. After watching a video on youtube about the rotor disk angel did I understand the problem. :D havent had a problem since :pilotfly:

I think all USA military pilot candidates today need a 4 year engineering degree as a starter.

Basic training---everybody does it. Everybody doesn't always graduate. The military knows what it wants and how to get what it wants. I think they are harder on the officer candidates.

S.E.R.E. in Rangeley, Maine!

http://www.google.com/search?q=s.e.r.e.+navy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

SERE is mostly about what to do if you become a POW. I remember them saying, "evade and hide if you want, but you will be caught"! LOL

Now that would be fun.

When I was in, if captured, it was expected, I think it was mandatory, to escape if I could.

I read somewhere, Russian military jet pilot candidates are almost immediately put in a centrifuge to meet their minimum G-force requirements. If you black out before what they expect, out you go, find another endeavor.

I would like to go over to the airport and take some lessons though. They got both sailplanes and Cessnas. And if I ever get cancer and I know I'm going to die anyway, I'm going to do a skydive jump. There is a skydive ranch in Gardiner, NY. And afterwards kick myself real hard why did I wait so long...

http://www.skydivetheranch.com/

Erich

Ok as far as jumping into an a10 this simulator is going to be detailed and functional. but in no means accurate. There are two many systems that are NOFORN (No Foriegn Dissemination) or Classified (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret). The avionics beyond basic flight aids would be useless with out an OFP load from the ground crew. Also bringing a compressor online invoilves a few more things in reality.

 

Flight skills Maybe. Basic flight and instrumentation is simular. As for Landing. If you understand landing wieghts and fuel load distribution and vertical speed rates for landing then maybe. but most likely you end up like that picture.

 

The real deal. You have to know how to do a before flight check. too many pins and flags that need to be removed. A hog pilot will go to basic flight school. he/she starts on a prop aircraft with an instructor and gets basic flight then moves to a jet trainer. Here they spend many simulator hours where they go through all sorts of emergency scenarios and practice with actual equipment in the pit(Simulator). After solo and advance platform training they goto final platform school. This is where they start A10 Fam & I. They learn systems and the aircraft. Then they start flight training. All of this takes about 2-3 years. The school names escape me since i was navy. However the route is the same. Also they all goto SERE training before the intial deployment

 

So fellas you dream, and let the real thing goto the boys in the green flight suits.

Erich were you a USAF pilot?

Nope.

I was a Navy carpenter Seabee in a MCB unit. Of course carpentry was rather scarce, Navy has a sense of humor, concrete is what we did mostly. 1974 to 1982. I enlisted after Viet Nam was almost over.. They never called my draft number in 1970. I built houses for 4 years. My attitude changed. Oil Embargo and no work. Me and my brother enlisted. My Navy test scores qualified me for Annapolis, but I am color blind, so I stayed enlisted and stayed awhile.

I knew a hard azz guy that volunteered for SERE to test himself. But I remember them saying, "you will be caught".

I popped a blood vessel in my head when I turned age 50. It is surprising I remember as well as I do. The rest of that memory doesn't exist. LOL

I read your profile. Have you talked to a recruiter? Talked to anybody at the Air Force Academy? If you want it, do it! Don't let anybody stop you. Go for it.

Erich

Erich were you a USAF pilot?

And if I ever get cancer and I know I'm going to die anyway, I'm going to do a skydive jump.

Here's why you should go now: Cancer or no, you're gonna die anyway. We all are :thumbup:.

USAF pilots don't have to have an engineering degree, any Bachelor's degree is acceptable. The hard part is getting accepted to pilot school. The reserve unit I'm in asked us last month that anyone with a bachelor's degree and under 29 if they were interested talk to the commander because they are accepting packages to compete for one pilot slot. I was ready to jump at the chance until the age requirement came up, I'll be 35 this July. I've been an A-10 crew chief for years and the chance to fly one would have been a dream come true.

As to if you could start the APU or engines after flying this sym. This steps are 100% accurate. I've been APU and Engine run qualified before and starting up an A-10 is very easy. As a matter of fact for a normal training flight the DCS startup procedures are very accurate to what our pilots do day in and day out.

Pins very on munitions but 6 pins that are always installed when the jets on the ground are battery, three gear, slat, and gun pins. Before the pilot steps to the jet we (crew chiefs) pull all but the gun and any other weapon pins. Weapon pins are removed at EOR as well as any additional necks that are required for arming.

I wouldn't suggest rushing the flightline and trying to get one odd the ground though. Between the cops and us maintainers you woul be hard presses to even get 1 engine started before someone realized what was going on. :D

I think all USA military pilot candidates today need a 4 year engineering degree as a starter.

 

Basic training---everybody does it. Everybody doesn't always graduate. The military knows what it wants and how to get what it wants. I think they are harder on the officer candidates.

 

S.E.R.E. in Rangeley, Maine!

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=s.e.r.e.+navy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

SERE is mostly about what to do if you become a POW. I remember them saying, "evade and hide if you want, but you will be caught"! LOL

 

Now that would be fun.

 

When I was in, if captured, it was expected, I think it was mandatory, to escape if I could.

 

I read somewhere, Russian military jet pilot candidates are almost immediately put in a centrifuge to meet their minimum G-force requirements. If you black out before what they expect, out you go, find another endeavor.

 

Erich

Pilots in the Air Force are required a bachelors degree, engineering isn't required. A lot of them have degrees not related to engineering at all.

Officers don't go through BMT, they either go through OTS, the Academy, or ROTC. All three have a BMT-like component, and yep, it sucks. I was at BMT while ROTC was doing their summer stuff and they took a lot of ridiculous crap on top of everything we did.

Air Force Basic SERE Course is in Washington state, the basic SERE course covers all the components, and pilots are required to go through continuing training throughout their careers to reinforce the lessons in the basic course. It is true that following the evasion exercise, anyone that wasn't caught already will be shipped to the resistance training site. Wouldn't really be a SERE course without it!

As an aside, the code of conduct still states that you will make every attempt to escape, but escape is a violation of the LOAC, and, by extension, a violation of the UCMJ. Neat little catch-22 not even JAG could answer for me. Additionally most situations prisoners find themselves in preclude meaningful escape attempts, so your insinuation that we no longer train for escape is rather insulting.

Air Force pilots are required to go through the centerfuge as well, not sure the G load for A-10 pilots, or if it's even different from the rest of TacAir.

To the original topic... I haven't had an opportunity to touch base with the 104th FS here in MD... should do that. But I do remember a few years ago we were doing some training at the F-16 simulator the 555th FS has. After a few hundred hours with Falcon 4, I didn't have a problem starting it up, and I more or less figured out how to get things done. Correlation? Nearly none, as anyone that's taken an I-Ride in a 16 can tell you, you're so far behind the jet your first flight it isn't even funny. Even pilots at the RTU will tell you that.

I think I could get it started, taxi, takeoff... get out over the Chessie, or Atlantic here, and pull the Oh-SH*T handles. With enough time, I could probably figure out enough to arrive back on earth in one piece (won't exactly classify it as a landing!), but I doubt I'd get the time before the DC Air Guard came in their jets to say hello.

Yeah, right, I knew somebody was going to pickup on that and comment on it as soon as I wrote it. LOL

Erich

Here's why you should go now: Cancer or no, you're gonna die anyway. We all are :thumbup:.

Just going of the sim, without any other documentation, no.

For example, how do you open the canopy from the outside? How do you open the ladder door? etc. This is stuff you could maybe find on the net but i doubt it would be modeled in the sim.

I'd be able to fly it

My intent was not to insult anybody.

Navy basic training in 1974 was a joke; had to be the easiest of all the USA branches, but it was 13 weeks and I did not like it. I was enlisted. Fire fighting school was fun.

What I said about escape is what we were trained to do. The possibility of really escaping facing getting killed if you tried was rather remote. Remember this was 1974.

I did not do SERE. But I remember somebody saying what I repeated here, somewhere in my travels.

SEABEES were, still are a construction force. 2 weeks yearly we had to qualify with our various weapons with Marine Corps instructors. I did mine to Gulfport out at Keesler or Camp Geiger to Camp LeJeune actually playing maneuvers with the Marines. Also did the winter mountaineering school to Camp Drum (Fort Drum, now).

Some of what I said is what actually happened to me. Some, like the officer candidate school for the Marine Corps I saw on the Discovery Channel. What they filmed was a lot worse than what I remember. The guy had his degree and he was being severely hassled.

We had one guy in our unit that did SEAL school basic training. He flunked out. What he told me he actually did I thought was bull. Until I saw it on Discovery Channel couple years ago and everything he told me was dead-nuts true. He told me some other stuff they did that was not filmed for obvious reasons. Graduation final exam, 2 guys in scuba gear are dropped 20 miles out to sea and they were required to swim back to shore---that is what I was told by this guy. Another guy in our unit was a SEAL during Viet Nam behind the front lines doing mostly recon missions. He cracked mentally on his 3rd tour and the Bees was the closest thing to SEALs so he joined up with us operating a bulldozer.

Nice to see real active duty / reserve guys commenting here.

Navy SERE school out of Brunswick, Maine is near Rangeley in the mountains.

What I wanted to say was anybody wanting to fly in the military, there is a whole lot of training involved before they would ever allow you in their planes; basically all about mental discipline and are you the right guy they are seeking to do the job.

I worked machine shop with a WWII vet that flew gliders in on D-Day. He did fighter pilot school and passed. He got gliders and then was infantry fighting with the grunts. He flew gliders in 2 separate times.

Wanting to fly jets is a good start. Actually getting to do so is up to if you can really do it.

I was surprised that Alaska State Police, NY State Correction guards and I think also New York City cops all go through a similar style of basic training like what I went through but it variated as to what they were going to be doing. I think it is a bit of mild brain washing, learn to work as a unit, learn some discipline, follow orders.

The Navy Seabees was the most fun I ever had. My wife would disagree---I better say getting married to her!! LOL

No insult was or is intended.

Erich

Pilots in the Air Force are required a bachelors degree, engineering isn't required. A lot of them have degrees not related to engineering at all.

 

Officers don't go through BMT, they either go through OTS, the Academy, or ROTC. All three have a BMT-like component, and yep, it sucks. I was at BMT while ROTC was doing their summer stuff and they took a lot of ridiculous crap on top of everything we did.

 

Air Force Basic SERE Course is in Washington state, the basic SERE course covers all the components, and pilots are required to go through continuing training throughout their careers to reinforce the lessons in the basic course. It is true that following the evasion exercise, anyone that wasn't caught already will be shipped to the resistance training site. Wouldn't really be a SERE course without it!

 

As an aside, the code of conduct still states that you will make every attempt to escape, but escape is a violation of the LOAC, and, by extension, a violation of the UCMJ. Neat little catch-22 not even JAG could answer for me. Additionally most situations prisoners find themselves in preclude meaningful escape attempts, so your insinuation that we no longer train for escape is rather insulting.

 

Air Force pilots are required to go through the centerfuge as well, not sure the G load for A-10 pilots, or if it's even different from the rest of TacAir.

 

To the original topic... I haven't had an opportunity to touch base with the 104th FS here in MD... should do that. But I do remember a few years ago we were doing some training at the F-16 simulator the 555th FS has. After a few hundred hours with Falcon 4, I didn't have a problem starting it up, and I more or less figured out how to get things done. Correlation? Nearly none, as anyone that's taken an I-Ride in a 16 can tell you, you're so far behind the jet your first flight it isn't even funny. Even pilots at the RTU will tell you that.

 

I think I could get it started, taxi, takeoff... get out over the Chessie, or Atlantic here, and pull the Oh-SH*T handles. With enough time, I could probably figure out enough to arrive back on earth in one piece (won't exactly classify it as a landing!), but I doubt I'd get the time before the DC Air Guard came in their jets to say hello.

You guys talk about aircraft as if they're not designed to fly and require some mystic knowledge to keep them airborn! Am well on my way to acquiring ppl an have to say Dcs and fsx helped immeasurably. It wouldnt be pretty and you'd definitely crap yourself but between ils and understanding of the basics there's no reason you couldn't get it down...

Getting it down, sure.

Not cracking the landing gear and then skidding off the runway to a fiery death? Something else.

Combine the simulator with a good couple flying hours on similar aircraft, though, and you might be fine. The big deal isn't that it's impossible, it's that it's still extremely dangerous. For one thing there's a fairly massive issue of perspective as far as landing goes - the simulator haven't taught you to read your flare timing properly since you are used to looking at a screen, not out a canopy. It's a bit like the ever-returning question of "if I play FSX could I take over and land a 747?" The answer is - possibly, but you'd need tonnes of luck. Sitting in front of a computer screen isn't going to teach you to read altitudes correctly at those speeds making it extremely easy to end up cracking landing gears, blowing tyres and all such fun stuff. Similarly, the purely physical feel of the controls will be different to your computer HOTAS setup - introducing an element of negative learning from your simming experience. The pressure you learn to apply in the sim might be completely correct to cause the simulated controls to move just right - but be completely off in the real thing. (Something I have experience of IRL - it's just very different in a real plane.)

So possible - yeah. But I wouldn't recommend it if you want to have a comfortable survival chance. :P

I honestly believe i could start the real A-10c up no problem at all. As long as someone shows me where the RWIN + HOME key is when i get my fat arse in the cockpit.

Yes ... to some degree. I actually have the flight manual to the A-10A which does cover the location of the access panels on the exterior to extend the ladder, etc. Assuming of course the aircraft has not been modified and the panel location changed (which I doubt it would), I should be able to find it.

I have the TM Warthog HOTAS so I'm used to the controls being where they should be. Assuming nothing has been left out of DCS A-10C in regards to the start up sequence I'm sure I could get the aircraft up and running from a cold start.

But that's where the easy part ends.

If ... and I mean IF my controls had their curves values set such that they pretty accurately mimicked the same amount of control inputs on the real aircraft, then I might have a chance at taxing successfully and MAYBE taking off without major mishaps.

Just flying around wouldn't be a problem (although coordinated flight would take some practice).

Landing, however, would be another matter entirely.

The other big obstacle would be dealing with G-forces. Yes the A-10 isn't going to be pulling any 9G turns like an F-16 ... but sitting in a flight seat at home doing maneuvers constantly at 1G would be a lot different compared to when you are trying to focus on several things at once in combat, and experiencing G forces which you are not accustomed to.

So could you get in and fly? Possibly. If you have the Warthog controller so you don't have to relearn all the control locations. But even then I'll give you odds of 1 in 3. Maybe 1 in 2 if you've flown other aircraft already with similar handling characteristics.

But being combat effective? Not likely.

But if the Air Force ever decides to do an experiment to this effect ... I'm game. Bring it! hehe

Yes we could all fly the A-10 as good as any pilot today. In fact just based off what I've learned from my computer I'm qualified for many professions, why I go to my daily job now just baffles me when I could ......

Be a professional roller coaster deigner thanks to Roller Coaster Tycoon

Be a professional sub captain thanks to Silent Hunter

Be a professional 17th century trader and colonist because of Anno 1701

I could also make a living selling lemonade and make millioins of dollars just like in the lemonade tycoon game

OR ......

I could always fall back and be an A-10 fighter pilot thanks to DCS :doh:

Yes we could all fly the A-10 as good as any pilot today. In fact just based off what I've learned from my computer I'm qualified for many professions, why I go to my daily job now just baffles me when I could ......

 

 

Be a professional roller coaster deigner thanks to Roller Coaster Tycoon

 

Be a professional sub captain thanks to Silent Hunter

 

Be a professional 17th century trader and colonist because of Anno 1701

 

I could also make a living selling lemonade and make millioins of dollars just like in the lemonade tycoon game

 

OR ......

 

I could always fall back and be an A-10 fighter pilot thanks to DCS :doh:

Damn who pissed in your cheereos....I have worked A-10s for 15 plus years, have run engines and APU...ops checked just about every system and I can tell you this sim mimics the real deal very well. Could I conduct a mission from start to finish, all weapons on target? Doubt it many variables that can't be simulated but, could I do the basics. I think so based on my experience and my relationship with our pilots....

Damn who pissed in your cheereos....I have worked A-10s for 15 plus years, have run engines and APU...ops checked just about every system and I can tell you this sim mimics the real deal very well. Could I conduct a mission from start to finish, all weapons on target? Doubt it many variables that can't be simulated but, could I do the basics. I think so based on my experience and my relationship with our pilots....

Hey now, are you saying Roller Coaster tycoon was not realistic? Not only did I build Rollercoasters in that sim but I also have been on one or two in real life :lol: I think I may just be able to build one if Disney World will let me. Regardomg the A-10 though, I'd let you pilot it over me, I'd be along for the ride because I have a hard time even getting this SIM off the ground sometimes so a ride with me might be very very short.

Two true stories:

The guy with over a thousand hours in MSFS and a TAXI maintenance license decided to try and fly a single engine plane He was supposed to be moving..never did get to tell His story.

And an author in Computer Pilot magazine got to fly an Airbus Simulator..took over mid flight with no situational awareness, with all charts and plates Commed with atc, progammed the mcdoo?(airbus) commanded the aircraft flew it by the numbers and made a perfect landing on time (proficient with all systems) still said pure simming won't teach You Flight....don't know what issue, was a couple of Years back..