Black Shark 3 official photos.

and he doesn't want to find the logic that what ED has even found and can justify their decisions to do Black Shark 3

I completely agree with E.D.'s own stated logic - they have said it a product of imagination, produced to provide enough product differentiation to make BS3 appealing, and that they have no evidence such an aircraft ever existed.

Really don't care either way. Igla's will be a nice snap defense, especially for those of us with bad "joysticks" and xbox controllers. :clap_2:

Not a photo (50-3), sry. Really vid Ka-50.

I completely agree with E.D.'s own stated logic - they have said it a product of imagination, produced to provide enough product differentiation to make BS3 appealing, and that they have no evidence such an aircraft ever existed.

And I have never denied that, instead I have provide the logic that supports ED actions why they can do such thing, as they are not making fantasy helicopter like you claim, instead they take all known existing parts and put them all together with educated guess based to official information here and there, regardless there is not a single photograph or video from real helicopter flying with them as you demand to prove it.

We have facts about R-73 missile existing.

We have photographs of R-73, equipped and supplied for the KA-50.

We have facts about President-S existing.

We have photographs of President-S equipped and supplied for KA-50.

We have facts about IGLA-V system existing.

We have photographs of IGLA-V system equipped and supplied for the KA-50 and offered for sales.

We have facts about three pylon wing existing.

We have facts about KA-52 compatibility with KA-50 by parts like wings etc.

We have photographs and even video of KA-50 glass cockpit, but nothing from outside of that.

But we do not have a single real helicopter accessible that has everything in one configuration ready to go and fly and do combat. There are some interviews and documents about how all such things should have been in one helicopter. But everything is scattered to multiple pieces and documentations but nothing like you could walk to airbase and see it in action as one unit. Because KA-50 was cancelled.

So ED has all the possibilities logically pick up various tech offered for KA-50 or possible for it, and put them together. Regardless they have never seen publicly together.

Some people have imagination how to build such systems even without any guidebooks, but some requires guidebooks and some doesn't even get it then but just want to have the finished product.

As I have multiple times already explained for you, what ED does in those few major features is logical and acceptable, but IMHO how they are going to implement President-S to the aircraft and its warning display etc (that is known fact how it looks) is questionable, especially if they take freedom to just slap a new page to KABRIS to imitate the real dedicated screen without having information how or where it should be. Like if it requires a glass cockpit or that own dedicated screen, then they either need to make the glass cockpit or get that screen in, but not to fiddle with the KABRIS itself then.

Fantasies as you say, would be making things that has not existed at all. Be it like a RN-24 nuclear bomb carrying or R-77 carrying or having a laser blaster instead 30mm cannon, or add a jet engines to it to makeshift it to V-22 osprey clone from Terminator franchise....

But if it is required from ED to explain some tight minded people that "this is so as we wanted" just to get them to somewhat approve it even when being against any reasoning, then so be it.

So what can be said about KA-50 "Black Shark 3" is that it is "improvised KA-50" and not a "fantasy KA-50".

As in the Russian and Ukrainian engineers and designers can be very innovative and ready to improvise a lot. Russian has lots of people who are creative and can invent things that many other people would get stuck to bureaucracy and "No, you can't do that because..." attitude.

https://www.armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ARES-Research-Report-No.-1-S-5-Rockets-in-Land-Warfare.pdf

And for those you will not find any official documentation they exist...

And lots of all kind modifications has been done to various Mi-24, Mi-8 and Mi-2 helicopters. By the company engineers, by the ground crews etc.

Completely unique units here and there, that many doesn't exist anymore as such configuration or at all. There is so little information about overall of KA-50, that much can't be said that "It is not possible".

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." ©

they are not making fantasy helicopter like you claim, instead they take all known existing parts and put them all together with educated guess based to official information here and there, regardless there is not a single photograph or video from real helicopter flying with them as you demand to prove it.

 

We have facts about R-73 missile existing.

We have photographs of R-73, equipped and supplied for the KA-50.

We have facts about President-S existing.

We have photographs of President-S equipped and supplied for KA-50.

We have facts about IGLA-V system existing.

We have photographs of IGLA-V system equipped and supplied for the KA-50 and offered for sales.

We have facts about three pylon wing existing.

We have facts about KA-52 compatibility with KA-50 by parts like wings etc.

We have photographs and even video of KA-50 glass cockpit, but nothing from outside of that.

So by your reasoning, if I merge things that really exist together, what I get can't be 'fantasy', because all the components are real ?

So if I model my unicorn's horn after a Narwhal's tusk (a single horn which really exists on a mammal), and it's body after a horse (which really exists & is a mammal), my unicorn isn't a fantasy animal ?

And how are you going to make that creation then Weta? I understand what you mean but ur taking what was said by Fri to a whole new level. So much so that it becomes imposible.

Not a chance, imho.

 

It would require reworking the cockpit as the Shkval TV is designed for the Shkval camera and systems.

 

Unless Yuri can also slap a FLIR on top of the Shkval optics and rewire everything required to display the picture, control the targeting, etc. Just like he would if he rigs the KABRIS to display the President-S data ;)

This makes the ka-50 useless at night missions "especially in VR" when pitch black. Is FLIR that completed to code?

Didn't BS-1 had an option to make targets in Shkval TV look either black or white?

You still can. I'm certain that there's a switch with the brightness and contrast controls to do this. It may not have a key binding though?

You still can. I'm certain that there's a switch with the brightness and contrast controls to do this. It may not have a key binding though?

These ones? I tried everything. There is no way you can spot targets in the dark via shkval in VR.

True. But at the risk of being a dick, that isn't what you asked. You were looking for a way to swap image from white to black, which might make spotting targets easier in some conditions. And that switch with the moon and sun icons will do that. Whether it helps is a different question...

True. But at the risk of being a dick, that isn't what you asked. You were looking for a way to swap image from white to black, which might make spotting targets easier in some conditions. And that switch with the moon and sun icons will do that. Whether it helps is a different question...

Are you talking about number 8?

TL;DR

 

Can't be arsed with a wall of textual rambling. But does an exact BORT# exist, or has one ever existed, that had this implemented? Because if not, just forget about it.

no, no such helicopter ever physically existed. its fictional "what if" and thus im not interested.

no, no such helicopter ever physically existed. its fictional "what if" and thus im not interested.

As far as we know, and we know little, it never existed.

Are you talking about number 8?

No I was talking about number 2, though what I actually referred to was indeed switch 8 (which does nothing as you'll no doubt know).

I was also mistaken though - it just changes the symbology from white to black, not the image itself.

You can do good stuff with the brightness and contract controls, but not enough to make the cab properly usable at night.

Sorry for the duff info.

Sorry to intrude being kinda clueless on this thread but has ED already publicly stated if they are willing to push a ka50 model that hasn't really existed, yet was feasible to have been built ?

Also I don't remember for sure but I do recall hearing ED say somewhere that they have contacts at kamov, who knows maybe they have information we don't and that's why I'm asking if they said anything on this matter already.

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." ©

That gets repeated by people who has no idea what it means....

So by your reasoning, if I merge things that really exist together, what I get can't be 'fantasy', because all the components are real ?

 

So if I model my unicorn's horn after a Narwhal's tusk (a single horn which really exists on a mammal), and it's body after a horse (which really exists & is a mammal), my unicorn isn't a fantasy animal ?

Even if you would breed such an animal then No, it is not a fantasy animal it is just lack of imagination, and having talent to be creative.

There is big difference between "fantasizing", "imaging" and being "creative".

As you still do not understand, I completely agree that ED takes creative freedoms, but they base their main features to well known evidence that you have not managed to proof impossible. I again remind you, this is not two side party, it is multiside party and it is your job to proof everything is impossible as you claim they are impossible, as I don't claim that anything is factual but it is just plausible. There is big difference someone to say "It is possible" without information than someone saying "It has been done" or "it has not been done" because both of those requires you to have evidence.

My argument is still "that it's perfectly plausible KAMOV would have developed KA-50 further along KA-52..." and it doesn't require any evidence to provide that there would exist such an aircraft that you are claiming to be fantasy. It is opposite that you must show evidence that no such aircraft could ever be build by KAMOV, that it would be impossible. Because I have not made an argument that KAMOV has build such an helicopter, as that would require me to provide evidence that such helicopter exist that ED is making. And I don't need to do that as evidence points to direction that is plausible that what ED is making.

There is nothing fantasy going on, as "Black Shark 3" is not carrying nuclear bombs, it is not having 105mm howitzer or anything like that would make it fantasy.

Sorry to intrude being kinda clueless on this thread but has ED already publicly stated if they are willing to push a ka50 model that hasn't really existed, yet was feasible to have been built ?

Yes. They have said that they take good educational guesses with some of the features, but based good evidence there has been available. But as there ain't single KA-50 that has all in it, they can't by the typical DCS standard say that "this is so by the book".

Also I don't remember for sure but I do recall hearing ED say somewhere that they have contacts at kamov, who knows maybe they have information we don't and that's why I'm asking if they said anything on this matter already.

IIRC they said that they didn't anymore have those contacts they had when they made Black Shark 1.

I should know to stop coming to this thread expecting photos

I agree with Fri13. Kamov arent idiots, they knew themselves that the ka50 bort 25 is not a 'finished' product. It makes sense to me that kamov would have developed the ka50 a lot more than the ka50 bort 25 that we have.

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That gets repeated by people who has no idea what it means....

I already told you what this means… I can repeat it again.

Demagogy.

I agree with Fri13. Kamov arent idiots, they knew themselves that the ka50 bort 25 is not a 'finished' product. It makes sense to me that kamov would have developed the ka50 a lot more than the ka50 bort 25 that we have.

Indeed.

And this is what Kamov did and they did it to Bort 25.

Bort 25 (then Bort 15), was the production standard model when production of the KA-50 was ordered and this is what we have in game.

Bort 25 and 24 (was Bort 14) later became the test airframes for future developments as well as the test beds for future KA-52 equipment.

Bort 25 went through a shed load of upgrades and was the very last KA-50 to fly..... I believe.

Hi msalama,

Perhaps I mis-understood your question but please follow the link below for yellow 25 photographs, you probably have seen them before.

This is yellow 25 beautifully photographed... I believe she is our girl.

The "Balls of Fate" are not specifically shown in any photographs but can be seen just out of shot with most rear landing gear photos.... obvy they had something to hide.

 

 

https://walkarounds.ru/index.php?/category/aviation-ru-kamov-ka-50

Page 6 of these photos I posted further back in this thread show some nice photos of our beloved film star war veteran yellow 25's cockpit at some point in her development. The balls of fate are some what sensitive at the time of the posting of these photos and are not directly shown, but the fairing can be clearly seen in landing gear photos.

The pit has a few extras, I am sure you will agree.

This is not a thread about what Kamov could have or should have done, so throw that logic away. This is a flight sim that focuses on realism, as far as it is achievable. We receive airframes that are truthfully represented based on their actual counterparts, because enough info is available on them. And this is the problem with this new BS3. It´s that such a version has never existed. We let the fantasy get in the way of realism. With the reasoning being presented here, and rather weak arguments, we should have AH-64 because educated guesses, even though much info is confidential on it and it´s systems... This is not Ace Combat, here we hopefully have a more mature community that understands that the aircraft we receive are based on reality with all the capabilities and limitations of their real life counterparts (and that because authenticity drives us all to this sim, not possible projections). In this case, all the Ka50´s were pretty much test-beds with 4 units that were production-ready concepts. But they varied in systems, and not one had IRL all the systems we are getting now baked in one single Ka50 airframe. Go and ask Belsimtek for Igla and AtakaV on Mi8 because other variants of Mi8 have it. I mean if one really wanted, it could have been made to work IRL. No, no and no! Wrong simulation to make such crap in. We as a community are interested in authenticity of our aircraft, not projections of what if we take this and that and mold it into something.

Fri13, your arguments are rather weak here, and tbh, until we see pictures of the very same cockpit containing all these systems, this is pretty much a fantasy venture. Otherwise, with this logic, go and propose the US army and upgrade to their Apache: Aim120C with wiring for all the pylons. This because Aim120C exists, Ah-64D exists, and it has a radar, so it could be made to work with the aiming and guidance for Aim120C, if one wanted to... Or propose R77 to Russian army with our Mi28 or Ka52. Imagine, it could do BVR combat... I am totally against such crap!

We fly older aircraft here in the community and enjoy the difficulty (MiG21bis on MP servers against F15/F16/F18´s), but as I am a B**** for realism, I just cannot agree with a non-existent Ka50 with systems that we know very little about. Least of all, that we merge multiple versions into one. There is a reason our Mirage 2000C is an Interceptor and not a merge of the capabilities of D (ground attacker) and N (Nuclear Strike), just to mention an example. About the only good argument for this, is the fact that they were almost all testbeds and prototypes, and not fully complete production-ready aircraft. But even with this argument, it´s just not what this community values. Screw flying sharks with lasers strapped to their heads, it´s the realism!

We have a fantastic Ka50 modelled after #25 with the same capabilities. It´s awesome to know what it would be like IRL on a battlefield, whether you stick to the opponents of the era, or run a ultra-modern scenario with it. Every aircraft has it´s positives and negatives, although Ka50 has practically on positives. What we take pride in here in DCS is that we FLY the #25, and not a mix of what ifs.