SimShaker Thread for Transducers (Buttkickers) only setups

I've started this separate thread as it's clear that the primary discussion thread is a mix of issues that are too interwoven to be useful without a ton of time to parse through it. Hopefully, this thread will become useful to anyone looking to setup DCS in a similar fashion.

For clarity, as I've noted some folks are confused by the vocabulary: The Buttkicker IS a transducer.

My experience with the SimShaker software is very new, less than a week at this point, but as I've struggled to find solutions to my problems here and on the dev site, I'm hoping to start a focused discussion. Please keep this thread topic to transducers only, and use Andre's original thread for all others related subjects. He appears very responsive and an enthusiastic product supporter.

First, some background.

My setup:

2 Sound Cards

- Card 1 is used for headset/microphone only.

- Card 2 is configured as the primary PC sound device (i.e. all game sounds) and has a 5.1 physical speaker setup.

I also have a Buttkicker Gamer 2. More on that in a moment. The connection between the 5.1 speaker system and PC sound card is via the traditional three 3.5 mm stereo phone connectors. As I'm aware many folks aren't familiar with the term "3.5 mm stereo phone connectors", I'm referring to what is more commonly known as "headset jacks", they look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)#/media/File:TRS_connector.JPG. Right, we've all seen these!

In the traditional PC 5.1 speaker setup, the speaker channels break down as follows:

GREEN 3.5 mm stereo plug 1: Front left and right speakers.

ORANGE 3.5 mm stereo plug 2: Center channel and subwoofer

BLACK 3.5 mm stereo plug 3: Rear/Side left and right speaker.

When a single transducer is introduced to this setup, the manufacturer's recommended configuration is to place a splitter (Y Cable) on the ORANGE plug. The simple idea being that the transducer will react to low frequencies, i.e. same channel as the sub woofer. Using a Y cable allows you to continue to send sound to the 5.1 speaker system's center/subwoofer, AND the transducer.

For at least a year, that has been my setup. And from DCS 1.2 all the way to the current DCS 1.5, that still works. It's not perfect, but I can *feel* the following effects with distinction:

1. APU start

2. Engine Spool up to max

3. Ground Bumps and Touch down (and lack of rumble after liftoff)

3. Cannon Fire

4. FLAPS

5. Gear up/down

6. Ejection

7. Chaff/Flare

8. Weapon Release

9. The engine's of nearby aircraft

As many of you know, the effects described above work simply by the included low (bass) frequencies of those game sounds. Now the effects aren't perfect, but I've been very satisfied. However, in DCS World 2.0, as of the last update (or perhaps the one before), something changed with the sound system itself. That is, while all of the effects can still be felt with distinction in 1.5, that is no longer the case in DCS World 2.0. In fact, in 2.0, once the engine spools up to max and you're rolling (e.g. A-10C), it masks all other effects. This was a pain to t-shoot, and prove, but clearly something's changed, and I was close to disabling the Buttkicker altogether as it just "rumbles" now after engine spool up.

Enter the search for a solution: SimShaker.

I'd read about the Gametrix chair, but I wasn't really interested. At least not at the moment. I simply wanted to solve the problem with my transducer. After understanding what SimShaker brings to DCS (and other games), I went ahead and "donated" for an activation key ($23US, although it can be demoed for free with very limited effects).

I'm still in the midst of evaluating it, so I don't have a complete opinion yet, but, let me cut to the chase and say "it works!". That is, all of the effects I care about are back in DCS World 2.0 with distinction, AND improvement. Quite simply, that's because SimShaker isn't reacting to the audio of the sim, but it's generating its own effects based on your actions, and then sending them to the transducer (yes, via sound signals). In other words, it's using audio in the transducer setup, however, it's not a passive sound. When I touch down, I feel it. When I extend my flaps, gear, I feel them. Very cool indeed! (again, this is still working for me in 1.5 without SimShaker, but the SimShaker effects are so much better, I prefer them, even in 1.5. On the other hand, DCS World 2.0 is completely botched for this at the moment, so SimShaker is the only solution if you have a transducer.

Some initial yet manageable concerns

1. The documentation is very poor. As an example, the SimShaker software sends its audio signal to the left/right channel. In a 5.1 setup, where your transducer is configured on the Center/Subwoofer (ORANGE) channel, that won't work. It was a couple hours until I realized what was happening, and switched the Y Cable from the ORANGE (center/subwoofer) channel, to the GREEN (front L/R channel). All of the documentation on the site appears to assume a stereo setup, with either 1 or 2 transducers. If there are notes for 5.1 setups, I can't find them. I know quite a few people with 5.1 speaker setups, and they'd be equally frustrated. There are other issues with the documentation, but I won't list them here. Just be prepared for community support, which is why I'm starting this thread.

2. There is a clipping sound heard through the Left/Right speakers when each effect kicks in. (e.g. when lifting the gear or lowing flaps). The clipping sound stops when the effect is complete. The website advises to reduce the volume in Sound Module (i.e. Sound Module is a GUI focused on Transducer setups, like the Buttkicker, as opposed to USB setups). However, changing the volume there has no effect in sim, only on the test files. The only way to effect volume in sim is by manipulating the GAIN for Sound Module in SimShaker GUI, not Sound Module itself. Unfortunately, this doesn't solve the problem. Turning the gain down will indeed make the clipping go away for the particular sound effect, but now the effect is too soft to be appreciated. I'm still t-shooting, but that's where we are so far folks. More when I have more.

would love more than x2 channels and have them independently adjustable (level)

+would also like the gforce effects also be usable for us with buttkickers

I'm guessing these are high frequency vibrations which would feel great

SimShaker SoundModule simply needs a separate channel or soundcard. In a conventional 5.1 setup we can not control the .1 (subwoofer) channel in isolation. In your setup the effect sound is passed to to your 5.1 and played through your speakers as well.

I'm currently working on an 'official' thread summarizing/presenting the whole SimShaker environment. But currently my time is very limited...

@Mods: Could you please merge this with the SimShaker SoundeModule thread?

Edit: Dojo, best would be to use a 3rd soundcard or a real multichannel soundcard

Edit2: I mix the effect sound using Voicemeeter Banana with the game sound and send the signal through on of my 8 dedicated sound channels in my multichannel sound card (M-Audio 1010LT)

would love more than x2 channels and have them independently adjustable (level)

 

+would also like the gforce effects also be usable for us with buttkickers

I'm guessing these are high frequency vibrations which would feel great

More sound channels is not on my roadmap simply because I only own one shaker :)

G-Feeling for planes using sound... might be worth to investigate

SimShaker SoundModule simply needs a separate channel or soundcard. In a conventional 5.1 setup we can not control the .1 (subwoofer) channel in isolation. In your setup the effect sound is passed to to your 5.1 and played through your speakers as well.

 

I'm currently working on an 'official' thread summarizing/presenting the whole SimShaker environment. But currently my time is very limited...

Thanks for the response, F4l0. However, as you wrote, my setup is a conventional 5.1 setup. While certainly I appreciate the challenge, I believe my setup is common enough where it should be addressed. In other words, please make sure your official thread speaks to this setup, even if you're pointing out the limitations. Not everyone can simply purchase a new sound card. Even those who can, may not have the chassis space to install a 3rd. Surely you don't want to ignore the concerns of someone with a conventional setup when good documentation can address it.

As for the clipping specifically, if you're suggesting that can only be solved with a dedicated sound card for the transducer, that's another discussion altogether.

Respectfully, I'll wait for your dedicated thread. I certainly know how limited time can be!

cant use sound for G effects, there is no sound for G's

G-forces are a silent feeling not acoustic

cant use sound for G effects, there is no sound for G's

 

G-forces are a silent feeling not acoustic

Pardon me?

The transducer uses sound/waveform signals to generate effects. Currently we try to imitate at least a bit of gfeeling with the jetseat.

thanks for sharing this.

i hope to write up my setup to and share it.

there are so many configurations, its hard to say who to mimic from, when it comes to a new user.

Thanks for the response, F4l0. However, as you wrote, my setup is a conventional 5.1 setup. While certainly I appreciate the challenge, I believe my setup is common enough where it should be addressed. In other words, please make sure your official thread speaks to this setup, even if you're pointing out the limitations. Not everyone can simply purchase a new sound card. Even those who can, may not have the chassis space to install a 3rd. Surely you don't want to ignore the concerns of someone with a conventional setup when good documentation can address it.

 

As for the clipping specifically, if you're suggesting that can only be solved with a dedicated sound card for the transducer, that's another discussion altogether.

 

Respectfully, I'll wait for your dedicated thread. I certainly know how limited time can be!

A dedicated USB soundcard for a few $ is enough. In windows it is simply not possible to control the channels in a 5.1 stream. Thus mixing game sound/windows sounds with the SimShaker sounds is currently not possible.

From the SimShaker website:

Basic setup

Select your transducer tied sound card in drop-down list. Generally it should be a dedicated one, to allow us not mix special low frequency sounds with game sounds.

But you are right, I will highlight this point in the 'official' thread. Basically this is the reason why Andre and I are looking forward to this thread. A lot of the same questions have been answered in both SimShaker threads which makes it really hard to find a good entry point.

A dedicated USB soundcard for a few $ is enough. In windows it is simply not possible to control the channels in a 5.1 stream. Thus mixing game sound/windows sounds with the SimShaker sounds is currently not possible.

Ah, I don't think I spoke clearly enough, allow me to restate. Personally, an additional sound card is not a problem, and that's not what I meant. Let me try to say it a different way. I am saying this should be said very clearly, as you have said it here, on your dev site. The 5.1 setup is the most common multi-channel setup. Yes, I'm aware it's not the only type, just the most common.

Think of it this way, your product is made for cars with 6 wheels. Let's also assume that cars with 6 wheels are MUCH BETTER than cars with 4 wheels. Still, most people have cars with 4 wheels, and your product doesn't work well for them. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM (unless you want it to be). That is not what I'm saying. We agree that this is not your problem.

However, because most people will come to your website, and have cars with 4 wheels, you should very clearly explain that a car with 2 or 4 wheels won't do, and will have issues 1, 2, and 3. In fact, you should provide examples of what it means to have an additional 2 dedicated wheels. Most people will see your description "Your car must have 2 dedicated wheels" and not think "Oh, this is meant for 6 wheeled cars", they will think "Oh, I have 2-wheel drive, he must be referring to me!"

If you write more clearly "Your car must have 6 distinct wheels, or you will have the following problems...".

OKOKOK, I hope my silly analogy makes sense ;)

I'm only saying highlight it, make it very clear, because most people will not even realize the problem. Your master thread is currently ~900 posts, and it has a mix of Gametrix/SimShaker subjects, it's far too painful to search through for something as basic as this. This clarity should be on your website.

OK, I think you get the point, forgive me for pressing it so hard. While it may not seem like it, I'm a very big fan of what you've done here! I sent my money, and I do not regret it!

Um, can I also tell you that I am an asshole?

I remembered I also have several tiny USB sound devices in my PC closet. I connected my Buttkicker directly to it, tested it, and the clipping is completely eliminated.

https://www.amazon.com/external-Adapter-Windows-Microphone-SD-CM-UAUD/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1466622391&sr=8-2&keywords=cmedia+usb+sound

You may want to provide that as a suggestion. Essentially a $6 USB sound card. I selected that device in Sound Module, and life was good. Thanks for your patience ;)

Yup it's the bomb, been using the software since it came out and cannot fly without it!

Um, can I also tell you that I am an asshole?

 

I remembered I also have several tiny USB sound devices in my PC closet. I connected my Buttkicker directly to it, tested it, and the clipping is completely eliminated.

 

https://www.amazon.com/external-Adapter-Windows-Microphone-SD-CM-UAUD/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1466622391&sr=8-2&keywords=cmedia+usb+sound

 

You may want to provide that as a suggestion. Essentially a $6 USB sound card. I selected that device in Sound Module, and life was good. Thanks for your patience ;)

Great to hear ;)

I understood what you said and from your podcasts I know that you are a software/computer guy who knows something about consumer/developer discrepancy :doh:. I just wanted to make this clear for the others ;)

Nevertheless, it seems that I will visit the family over the weekend(internet badlands) and it might be that I'll find some time to setup the new forum thread...

In the case of my motherboard, it has an optical output that is a separate device from the main soundcard, so an optical converter was all I needed.

Great to hear ;)

 

I understood what you said and from your podcasts I know that you are a software/computer guy who knows something about consumer/developer discrepancy :doh:. I just wanted to make this clear for the others ;)

The man pays attention ;)

The man pays attention ;)

;)

If your interested in helping, we are always looking for good beta testers. If you are interested, follow/join us on facebook.

Hi i hope this is the right place to post this.. hoping the sound module author will see this.

So i just setup my first transducer, I'm running steam DCS 2.5.6, Hp Reverb pro, voiceattack, and i have a program called soundswitch that hasn't caused me any problems so far. I have simshaker for aviators and i bought the sound module. I am running my transducer out of a usb "soundcard".

The first time i started everything up sound module said there was an update available which I skipped because I was eager to test my setup. I'm hoping that wasn't a mistake as it hasn't offered to update since. When i first started Dcs ALL the sound was coming through the transducer. Setting headphone output to my reverb gave me beeps and bitching betty in my ears but that was it. I then stumbled across audio mirroring in steam VR and now i get game sounds in my headset along with rumbles through the transducer. But I'm not sure it's supposed to work like it's working. I thought simshaker sound module was supposed to identify aircraft module and play sounds for different events? So, id i understand correctly, I shouldn't be getting any output through transducer for say, title screen music. Also in the drop down menu I don't get any aircraft choices and i didn't see anything in the debug logging. Also I'm not noticing any specific rumbles for gear, flaps etc. Any help is much appreciated thanks.