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Any explanation for move to Deferred Shading in 2.5.1 from Devs?


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I tried the F/A-18 last night.

I was glad and sad at the same time...

With the reduced image quality I could hardly make the carrier.

I had to have MSAA off or x2, Shadows "flat only", ground shadows off, PD1.3 and apart from textures set to high, everything else set to low.

The outside world seemed in Oculus like I was flying old MSFS. This is TRUE and SAD.

 

If you want it animated : https://i.imgur.com/3ftgHFL.gif

attachment.php?attachmentid=186037

 

 

The sad thing is that not even DS is implemented properly. You can see it by the way external lights (beacons, fires etc) are lighting the inside of the cockpit (without global cockpit illumination on). In a properly implemented system the lighting / shading is happening after all the geometry has been prepared... catch my drift ?

All these bugs may cost extra FPS... sad sad.

 

For me this whole thing has a strong resemblance to windows 8... "Forget your start button - we say that you do not need it".

 

I HONESTLY hope that I am wrong and soon we get our 90 fps back.

I still believe in miracles.

 

One small complaint: why my simple question has been ignored twice ?

Risking coming across as rude (which I hate), I will post it again one final time :

 

@SkateZilla :

I would love to see your answer to this question. As you wrote:

..... Thus PBR Requires Essentially Deferred Lighting and Shading to be Enabled....

Is Deferred shading an absolute must for the PBR renderer ?

I do not want to start a pointless discussion, just a clarification/verification.

 

Regards to all !

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🙂 Smile 🙂

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Is Deferred shading an absolute must for the PBR renderer ?

I do not want to start a pointless discussion, just a clarification/verification.

 

It is not, but PBR is also not any specific technique but rather a design philosophy and you can implement it pretty much any way you wish. It involves using real physical quantities in the renderer to ensure that, for example, your materials do not violate the law of conservation of energy. In a "traditional" approach you'd often have factors like "diffuse" or "specular" that the artists sets for a material based on not much else than what looks good. In a PBR approach you design everything to use true physical quantities and do not allow any arbitrary factors. You can well do it with or without deferred shading, but the exact approach used by ED may require it.

 

Overall I was personally a bit disappointed to find out DCS has gone deferred-only. The trend in the last few years seems to be to move away from deferred renderers and rather use forward+ based approach. Deferred rendering does not usually scale that great to high resolutions due to memory bandwidth requirements and also does not work with "true" MSAA, both of which are a problem especially for VR. Clustered forward+ does pretty much everything deferred rendering does in terms of lights without those downsides and its surprisingly easy to implement to an existing forward renderer too (it does have some negatives ie. for implementing screen space reflections). But ED must have a reason to pick deferred rendering so I hope they have a plan to make it perform better than the old forward renderer.

As a cyborg, you will serve SHODAN well

http://www.kegetys.fi

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Yeah, I agree with Kegetys. Whatever flaws and bumps we run into, they're not stupid and didn't select what they did arbitrarily. Instead of running around going 'rabble rabble rabble' let's just wait and see what they have in mind for rectifying some of these issues. Believe it or not, they're professionals in this field, so as impossible as it is for some here to grasp, they may know something we don't ;)

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Yeah, I agree with Kegetys. Whatever flaws and bumps we run into, they're not stupid and didn't select what they did arbitrarily. Instead of running around going 'rabble rabble rabble' let's just wait and see what they have in mind for rectifying some of these issues. Believe it or not, they're professionals in this field, so as impossible as it is for some here to grasp, they may know something we don't ;)

 

Maybe so, but if you're right.. wouldn't it have been a good idea if the fantastic new renderer had all been proven and ironed out before making mandatory to the new module's which had already been preordered?


Edited by NAKE350

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Maybe so, but if you're right.. wouldn't it have been a good idea if the fantastic new renderer had all been proven and ironed out before making mandatory to the new module's which had already been preordered?

 

You said it! Exactly my thoughts! :thumbup:

 

That's why I stopped using DCS for the moment.

Only the gods know why they released a "release" 2.5, and THEN

a "beta" 2.5.2 :cry:

 

Great / best sim, but VERY chaotic development roadmap....

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You said it! Exactly my thoughts! :thumbup:

 

Great / best sim, but VERY chaotic development roadmap....

 

+1

 

Not to mention the lack of common courtesy of not communicating a very significant change to their CUSTOMERS. Afaik, there's only been one short sentence in a readme file.

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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+1

 

Not to mention the lack of common courtesy of not communicating a very significant change to their CUSTOMERS. Afaik, there's only been one short sentence in a readme file.

 

+++ 100! :thumbup:

Mainboard: ASUS Maximus X Hero Intel Z 370

CPU: Intel Core i7-8086K @ 4.0 GHz

Memory: 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3000

Graphics Card: ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB

Monitor ASUS PA 329 32" @ 4K

1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 256 GB

1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 4 TB

Windows 10 - 64 V. 2004

CH Pro combatstick, throttle and pedals

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It is not, but PBR is also not any specific technique but rather a design philosophy and you can implement it pretty much any way you wish. It involves using real physical quantities in the renderer to ensure that, for example, your materials do not violate the law of conservation of energy. In a "traditional" approach you'd often have factors like "diffuse" or "specular" that the artists sets for a material based on not much else than what looks good. In a PBR approach you design everything to use true physical quantities and do not allow any arbitrary factors. You can well do it with or without deferred shading, but the exact approach used by ED may require it.

 

Overall I was personally a bit disappointed to find out DCS has gone deferred-only. The trend in the last few years seems to be to move away from deferred renderers and rather use forward+ based approach. Deferred rendering does not usually scale that great to high resolutions due to memory bandwidth requirements and also does not work with "true" MSAA, both of which are a problem especially for VR. Clustered forward+ does pretty much everything deferred rendering does in terms of lights without those downsides and its surprisingly easy to implement to an existing forward renderer too (it does have some negatives ie. for implementing screen space reflections). But ED must have a reason to pick deferred rendering so I hope they have a plan to make it perform better than the old forward renderer.

 

I very detailed and very good explanation, I hope someone in ED read this comment and learn something.

+1

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I very detailed and very good explanation, I hope someone in ED read this comment and learn something.

+1

 

Let's hope indeed. We very seldom get comments from the developers.

At least let's hope that they read this posts.

From my side, I got fed up playing free of charge beta-tester, especially

considering the great amount of money I have invested in Terrains and planes.

Mainboard: ASUS Maximus X Hero Intel Z 370

CPU: Intel Core i7-8086K @ 4.0 GHz

Memory: 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3000

Graphics Card: ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB

Monitor ASUS PA 329 32" @ 4K

1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 256 GB

1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 4 TB

Windows 10 - 64 V. 2004

CH Pro combatstick, throttle and pedals

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