Landing Gazelle

The word "difficult" in this context I would say being a grave understatement!

If you want to be proficient flying helicopters, do whatever you can to change your setup. In my opinion, how your physical setup is configured is vastly more important for helicopter flying than any other type of simulation, no-one even come close!

Your fingers, hand and wrist (also the rest of your arm) need to be relaxed because it is with those you balance your helicopter to the most part. Thats why helicopter pilots, both simers and IRL, rest their forarm on their thigh, and basically holding the stick with only 2-3 fingers.

Actually it seems like you haven't read any of the responses to this thread,.

I think I would have had a harder time learning the gazelle had I not flown the Huey for a year (or more) first. While the torque is in the opposite direction, it really didn't affect me much. However, the Gazelle uses much finer inputs of the Cyclic than the Huey. So that took some time. As well, the Trim is a completely different animal in the Gazelle than the Huey because such smaller, barely perceivable inputs are required to do many of the things the Huey does with much larger inputs.

As I mentioned in my first post (Pg 1 of this Thread) that remains important IMO, is that during a Hover, or while fly slowly or transitioning between Flight/Hover/Flight, the Inputs from the Pedals is equally important. Especially during the Hover. The Rudder/Pedals actually affect the forward/reverse flight when hovering as much as the Cyclic. So they pedals are being manipulated as much as the Cyclic (although, much less so in the Gazelle than the Huey).

Ultimately, it's like riding a Bike. Once you figure it out and find all the sweet spots, you will wonder what took you so long to master it. And it will just feel natural forever after.

Actually it seems like you haven't read any of the responses to this thread,.

My hand is outstretched all the time, which makes it difficult to control anything, I can't even bend it.

Having a configuration as he describes, with stretched out arm, doesn't help a lot. If he can alter his configuration, my suggestion was simply to do that.

If you can get a chair with adjustable height armrests you will save your arm and neck from pain and will have much more fine-tuned control of your cyclic and collective.

I have the X-55 Rhino Hotas which appears to have been made for Andre the Giant's hands than mine.

So I took some medium density foam; cut it to shape of the hand rest; and wrapped it up with "100 mph tape" (i.e. Duct Tape) and then stuck it to the hand rest with Double-Sided Tape (i.e. Carpet Tape).

This made a huge difference for me regarding fine control and overall comfort. And I don't get a stiff shoulder and burning neck for two days after flying for an hour due to holding my arm out in front of me.

All of these factors can and likely will make a difference for most people, regardless what Modules they fly.

Link

Well, did you see the quote I referred to?

 

Having a configuration as he describes, with stretched out arm, doesn't help a lot. If he can alter his configuration, my suggestion was simply to do that.

Sorry I do apologise but it gets quite frustrating.

I have said the same thing as you here

I know and we have been trying to correct the OP's technique but seems he doesn't take any notice presumably because he is going to be an instructor in a week or so.

:cry:

Since I've got most of the modules this is what I do. But I have to force myself to learn Gazelle. I must be awesome at it. My target is to be instructor-level by the end of next week.

 

I have said the same thing as you here

Indeed you have, and I know you have.

I know and we have been trying to correct the OP's technique but seems he doesn't take any notice

This is why I repeat it, maybe with different words and angles, hopefully he might realize it's importance one day.

@Cunning_Fox

You have a tiny room, right? With the bed right behind your chair with barely no space to move, right? Simply do this (and I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but it deserves repetition):

Put your chair away and sit down on the side of your bed in front of your laptop. Stack a pile of books on the floor between your legs and your joystick on it (spring removed!), at a height so you can rest your forarm on your thigh and comfortably control the stick with your fingers. Move your pedals accordingly, maybe if necessary move your bed/desk to get the screen closer. Maybe not perfect, but much better than what you have now, for free, no extra investments and easy to restore.

It might be useful to see Cunning_Fox's in-game track file (not Tacview), that way we could see actual inputs, though it's likely as we/I suspect, relatively large series of over-corrections.

Some good tips here about reducing that arm-reach issue, as that must make things a great deal harder.

Just a thought going from twist grip which I could never use to pedals do you have multiple assignments for "rudder" control. Thinking about it once you are in forward flight anti-torque over 100Klm/h IAS has only a small effect* compared to low speed or hover where anti-torque correction is absolutely required.

It might pay to go through your Axis settings to check that there are no conflicts, multiple assignments of a control input(s) can cause anything from normal operation to no operation or erratic operation of that input and others. Maybe even clear the axis inputs and re-enter them in case there is an issue.

*For the sake of this situation, correct input should always be used. :D

Again if controls are set up correctly and your technique is good you should find the Gazelle easy to operate even low to the ground and even setting down. ;)

I think I need to get the UH-1H to compare this against. [snip]

Done, well first off; they're certainly different. The Huey has a little shimmy and shake, that at first in slow flight I was trying to dial out, like you're a pendulum, but it's best not to chase that. Both are really great to fly, I spent an hour just hover taxiing around Nellis.

They both hover well, but with little nuances, so I wouldn't say one is harder/easier than the other... just different.

you will learn to deal with the huey wallow.

the main reason I got rid of the spring is because I could not correct for the wallow with the spring in.

and its so untidy wallowing along :)

and its something you notice instantly in video. do they correct the wallow? :)

Hello! I bought this module yesterday and it is my first helo like, ever. I think last time I flew a helo in a sim was the Janes Longbow game...

Now on landing the Gazelle. I don't know how other helos behave in DCS, but after 1 day practicing, I can land in the pad I want (not the one the Helo wants...) quite consistently.

There are several tips that helped me:

- First and foremost, just check that you have Force Feedback unticked in case your joystick doesn't have force feedback. My first hour was a nightmare until I read that in one forum post...

- Reset your trim just before you land. Since the trim usually is set with a pitch down, you will have a forward component all the time while you try to stabilize the hover.

- Don't try to hover above 10 m and then descend. It is crazy hard to do that. I don't know how you land other helos, but the Gazelle doesn't have GE until the last few metres above ground.

- Correct just one force at a time. First torque, then forward, and then center the lateral desplacement. With a bit of practice you can do it easy. If you feel like the helo is always going out of hover, check the trim and make sure you reset it (there is a bind for that)

Now I'm almost always descend like "in the movies" pitching up and dropping the collective. When you go through the transition, the VS will drop suddenly, apply collective and torque and with a bit of luck (and a lot of practice) you will be hovering at 10 m with almost zero forward speed. Center the helo and don't be afraid to skid a bit on the pad. Landing vertical is almost impossible.

On the other hand, having that agility means it is a nervous mount. But I'm having fun, and I don't regret buying the module, even if it is a bit lacking in the single player content, and the manual could be deeper.

Have fun!

Hello! I bought this module yesterday and it is my first helo like, ever. I think last time I flew a helo in a sim was the Janes Longbow game...

Nice the Gazelle is a fun bird to fly. Well all the Heli 's are. :)

On the other hand, having that agility means it is a nervous mount. But I'm having fun, and I don't regret buying the module, even if it is a bit lacking in the single player content, and the manual could be deeper.

 

Have fun!

Out of curiosity what are you using for controls?

If your using a joystick you could be interested in thread regarding cyclic input.

With the Gazelle you only need very small corrections but it can get a bit tedious with a conventional joystick. Because the Gazelles cyclic operates from center you can use both saturation and some curvature, the reason I mention this is your comment about the Gazelle being "a nervous mount", it's not. The other thing that will help with the Gazelle is to use just thumb and 1 or 2 fingers with something to rest/support your wrist on.

After you get used to it flying like this, low, fast or slow it will be just nice and stable, for me it's kinda like using telepathy I just will it to where I want it to go. :D

See video of setting down in my previous post for an example of just how little cyclic input the Gazelle needs.

The Gazelle has tricks that other rotaries in DCS will struggle with, great trim and stability, I've found it really easy to fly, it can also complete a loop from level.

The Gazelle has tricks that other rotaries in DCS will struggle with, great trim and stability, I've found it really easy to fly, it can also complete a loop from level.

That normally results in spontaneous and rapid disassembly usually accompanied by explosion.

May I ask how? :D

That normally results in spontaneous and rapid disassembly usually accompanied by explosion.

May I ask how? :D

With speed well into translational lift, with enough it will loop quite readily.

Okay, I guessing when you get towards the apex of the loop you don't fully unload the rotor which turns the loop more into an ellipse. okay thanks more practice. :pilotfly: :D

Okay, I guessing when you get towards the apex of the loop you don't fully unload the rotor which turns the loop more into an ellipse. okay thanks more practice. :pilotfly: :D

I'm away from my rig, but I'll fly a loop and upload a track or video later. It's smooth but pretty quick as you can see with those nutters in Serbia, ease back stick all through and over the top, I don't recall lowering the collective at all, cyclic eased off as you start to come out of it to let the speed rebuild.

Here's one loop of a barrel-roll, or loop-n-roll;

I kinda almost just rolled out of the apex so yes maybe not drop collective I'm thinking more procession through the loop.

If you have the PG map dive off the blue building with the heliport, easy to get to VNE on the way down. :D

Yes you can do a loop, although a bit more height and speed next time. Yes I pretty much did the loop and roll thing the first time. :D

Well sort off and that is a rush in VR, thanks :thumbup:

I'm away from my rig, but I'll fly a loop and upload a track or video later. It's smooth but pretty quick as you can see with those nutters in Serbia, ease back stick all through and over the top, I don't recall lowering the collective at all, cyclic eased off as you start to come out of it to let the speed rebuild.

Not getting entry and exit right yet :lol:

@Pat the sound isn't quite right? :D

Stick Twist/Rudder is really not conducive to smooth helicopter flight IMO.

I highly recommend you find some inexpensive Rudder Pedals. They will make a Night/Day difference and improvement.

There is allot of Rudder, Stick and Collective movements required for a smooth hover and/or landing. The movements are small but constant, especially if there is wind.

However, having the Gazelle Trimmed properly for a hover before landing is also very helpful {a little nose up and a wee bit to the right} will take care of most of the movement. The rest is done with hands/feet/eyes coordination.

I started with Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals but I found them a bit heavy for really fine-tuned rudder control. I switched to the Less Expensive CH Pro Flight Rudder Pedals with a Dead Zone of 3 at the center detente only. I find they work just dandy.

If anyone wants lessons in the Gazelle or Huey and has a suitable Server we can join, I'll gladly help any time (except late evenings).

For helicopters, it's been my experience that as long as you think about control inputs, you will struggle. We can deal with hands doing two different things well enough, but throw in feet in the mix and I've seen players spin all out of control when they get panicky.

For me, it just clicked at some point when I realised I was correcting for yaw with rudder almost before it happened and certainly before I realised what I was doing. Quite surpring when you do a landing, wonder why it's going to smooth and then realise your feet are not in the position you remembered them the last time you thought about them. ;)

The message for you isn't easy, but... it'll come to you eventually. keep calm, learn to counteract movement that you don't want and what remains is an artful landing. That's all there is to it. Know what you want to do and counteract things that you don't want to happen.

Just a headsup, came back to DCS after a big pause.

Took off on Gazelle, shot down three tanks in quick mission, reloaded and got the last one, came back and landed on a rooftop. Then landed on a town square. The on FARP.

All of this without the curves and with a twist. Gazelle is like second skin now.