Virpil V3 Throttle - bad design to remove the throttle locking detect switch

I have to say not a great design choice to remove the throttle locking detect switch from the V3 version of your throttles

This is a handy feature to make the throttle halves operate in different ways depending on if they were locked or not

1. Locked, (switch detects locked = true) then Axis 1 is copied to axis 2, deadzone is ignored

2. Unlocked, (switch detects unlocked = false) then both axis operate independentely and deadzone is used to control "snapping"

Right now there are some issues with the current way Virpil have decided to do things

They have removed lock switch - I didn't notice this before. I hope they can compensate for it in software. Right now their deadzone setup idea is rather bad as it creates jitter between left and right axis.

I own V1 and V3 on order, while I can live without detents, that may be a deal breaker if it's not resolved.

the locking bar is still there, but there is not detect switch for it is not

and yes the axis values snapping is a terrible design

it is not cross talk but rather when they get close to each other (determined by deadzone % value) they snap together

Woah,wait a minute. Why are they removing all these features and not telling us? I am too a v1 owner with a v3 on order. If this turns out to be a crap controller I will be sending it back. I get dirt cheap deals on shipping so that won’t bother me. VIRPIL don’t blow the trust of your buyers by changing your product without telling us or else we will just have to start calling you Boeing.

I also have a V1 throttle and spent a lot of time doing lots of tutorial videos on using Virpil kit

I was considering a V3 throttle but since I found this out, no chance in hell am I buying one now

Yeah I have been waiting until something went bad on my Warthog throttle before getting the Virpil, kind of glad I am now. Maybe I will wait until V4 or later. Just hope the Warthog throttle holds out a while longer.

As far as I can tell after initial testing the problem has been solved in latest firmware (28 June 2019). Will do more testing later. (https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/558-vpc-configuration-tool-test-releases/). By default deadzone is set to 2 which may not be enough for locked axes to keep the same value. Raise it to 3-5 and it should work as expected.

This is how it looks like with deadzone which keeps the axes together (4 to 5). Note, this is demonstrated with V1 throttle, but I don't see how this is going to be different with V3 (I'll find out soon).

I have disabled physical locking (button press) in Virpil software to simulate what version 3 does by default (button in throttle axis merge set to 0/---, V3 does not have a physical button which can lock axis copy)

Axes unlocked, moving only one axis.

Deadzone can be set to 0 and jitter will disappear, but (at least with V1) there will be 1-3% difference in values of the axes when locked (enough to make aircraft turn), assuming that physical button (only present in V1 and V2) is disabled in software. V3 does not have a physical button which can be set up to lock the axes in the software, therefore atm it's either jitter or uneven axes values. or if the tolerances are extremely tight it may not be a problem (rather unlikely IMO due to nature of the sensors)

It's about 1 to 2% jump when axis is next to each other physically. Not as massive deal as I thought, but still an issue. Not sure if this can be fixed without physical button, but we will see, maybe a slight delay between detection of two axes being close together and merge would help.

ps. I am not trying to cause an outrage here, I am not going to cancel my pre-order because of this and I have no intention to use any other throttle than Vripil because IMO there is nothing better than it on the market (except when I decide to switch to full Bugeye setup or buy a real F18 ). It's an issue and I am looking forward to Virpil solving it. (just don't make me wait 3 months for new throttle then release V4 pls ;) )

move your axis to about 50 and set deadzone at 0 (this would be worst case - see how bad it is)

for me it is 50% on one and 45% on other throttle

added demo video showing how this looks when viewing the VPC joystick tester

Please change the Title. This is misleading as people thing you have the V3 model and have this problem.

If both v1 and v2 have it I would think v3 probably does but since you have yet to official test V3 or anyone here this is not helping it seems like people would think you have V3 when you don't

"( Also what has virpil official said about this have you spoke to them?

I am guessing either

1. You did not watch the video fully

2. Did not understand it

What part(s) are you having problems with understanding ? I can try to help you

The V1 and V2 can be configured the same way as the V3 (by not using the switch)

Been in direct contact with Virpil a lot lately, I did almost buy a V3 2 days ago until I discovered this design change

but after learning and understanding what this means decided not to waste my money.

If Virpil or you want to buy me one for testing with that would be great, I just don't fancy wasting 350+ Euros

I'd ask Virpil not to be swayed by individual opinions and only consider changing items that are obviously important to a majority of customers (maybe do a poll after a certain amount have been delivered to see what people like and dislike about the product on the Virpil forums or by email, so the results aren't are not skewed by one particular user group's desires?).

Good idea, this particular change was not announced at all, Virpil just removed the switch and I only came across its removal because another user was having issues which I choose to investigate to try and help him out

I've just pre-ordered the V3, I'm heavily considering cancelling my order now; it really shouldn't be an issue for a throttle that costs this much with separate engine controls to do just that (ie control each engine individually without issue)

I'd ask Virpil not to be swayed by individual opinions and only consider changing items that are obviously important to a majority of customers (maybe do a poll after a certain amount have been delivered to see what people like and dislike about the product on the Virpil forums or by email, so the results aren't are not skewed by one particular user group's desires?).

Design by committee of random people is always bad.

What makes me uncomfortable is that they don't seem to be able to test their products thoroughly and/or decide to ignore obvious issues, like the one described here and release flawed products which feel rushed.

Again, it's lack of competition in effect and I admit, I am adding to this problem by buying beta versions of their hardware (specifically the throttle). Unfortunately there is nothing better out there, but it's not that hard to be better than "crap".

As I said I am looking forward for a 100% fix (not some clumsy workaround aka. use other button on the throttle), I am keeping my pre-order on.

I hope this can be sorted out, but my gut and experience is that it will take a bit of work,

surest solution is the return of the lock sensor,

failing that usersr will have to loose a button press to handle the lock /unlock function

Software methods will be a kludge fix at best,

different ways of "paring" the 2 throttle axis responses together were tried last night ......

I think I fundamentally don’t understand the issue. Why is it so difficult to have each throttle on a different axis entirely and thereby do away with any locking switch?

I think I fundamentally don’t understand the issue. Why is it so difficult to have each throttle on a different axis entirely and thereby do away with any locking switch?

You have never used a throttle that has left and right sides to it before ?

You have never used a throttle that has left and right sides to it before ?

I’m not sure I understand your question. I own a TM Warthog, which by all accounts has lesser quality component/internals, and yet doesn’t have the same issue

It's only an 'issue' in the configurator software, though. So doesn't really matter if you assign and tune your axes in DCS World. I don't see a single issue when moving my v3 throttles back and forth.

Edit: Correction - I've just been testing and looked for this exact issue in DCS World and it is, indeed a factor. You have my apologies for being skeptical (I always am until I see concrete proof of something - too many people making waves about everything these days), this is an issue that maybe needs to be sorted out by Virpil, who knows, though - it isn't that serious.

Test: Assign left and right throttles individually in DCS World. Then use "Axis Tune" option. Set the left handle to somewhere in the middle of its axis. Move the right throttle through its full length and watch as the received position signal in DCS World jumps - by some margin - as it passes the left handle position.

Well spotted!

Still, if the user has no intention of using the throttles separately, they needn't be concerned. Not seen it bothering anyone in-sim, either.

edit: having thoroughly tested this, it's nowhere near as big an issue as is being made out and shouted about - it wouldn't surprise me if Virpil leave it as it is, and I can't say I blame them. It isn't game-breaking nor is it going to have any meaningful negative effect on throttle control.

It's only an 'issue' in the configurator software, though. So doesn't really matter if you assign and tune your axes in DCS World. I don't see a single issue when moving my v3 throttles back and forth.

 

Edit: Correction - I've just been testing and looked for this exact issue in DCS World and it is, indeed a factor. You have my apologies for being skeptical (I always am until I see concrete proof of something - too many people making waves about everything these days), this is definitely an issue that needs to be sorted out by Virpil.

 

Test: Assign left and right throttles individually in DCS World. Then use "Axis Tune" option. Set the left handle to somewhere in the middle of its axis. Move the right throttle through its full length and watch as the received position signal in DCS World jumps - by some margin - as it passes the left handle position.

 

Well spotted!

 

Still, if the user has no intention of using the throttles separately, they needn't be concerned.

Agreed, far too much noise out there to trust without proof.

Still though, I think Virpil should address this as a major production issue.

I had this issue on my V2 as well, but I fixed it by doing a recalibration.

I had this issue on my V2 as well, but I fixed it by doing a recalibration.

Which way do you have the Throttle double Axis lock configured ?

Agreed, far too much noise out there to trust without proof.

 

Still though, I think Virpil should address this as a major production issue.

What more proof do you need the video clearly shows the problem ?

My bad I misread and apologize have yo reached out to VPC to see what they say?

Is there any way to fix this?