[REPORTED]Trees in Caucasus map look wrong - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


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Old 01-22-2020, 01:18 PM   #31
imacken
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I'm not sure it if it the same thing as being discussed here, but my trees have been looking not good since the recent update.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman-Ed View Post
No mods, repair run, shaders folders deleted.

This is the second run after the shaders re-compiled, I forgot to save the track file on the first one!

In the screenshot, the trees don't look quite as bad from this angle, but you can see something is not quite right with the trees on the other side of the river off the wingtip. When you're flying along it's sooo noticeable as they really pop when they switch from 3d trees to 2d flat textures, and it's happening at about a 1km radius from the player with my settings. It's the same kind of phenomena as in my previous screenshot that causes you to really notice it, where the lighting on the 3d trees comes from the direction of the sun, but the 2d trees seem to be from the opposite direction.


Track file: Attachment 225568

Log File: Attachment 225569

Options.lua: Attachment 225570
What is your Trees Visibility, that's the most important number we need?

You are using 80% Trees Visibility in the GUI, so you're not at 100% or 30% which is what I'm testing, I'm using 30% as I don't have enough performance for 100%, this is how I noticed this issue from the very beginning of SpeedTrees. For these tests you should either use 30% or 100% to compare between two to see what I'm talking about, no need to test any number in between, the setting just extends the distances between LODs like an accordion as well as the maxium tree coverage distance as well. If you guys all use different settings then you will all be seeing different results and thinking it's some other bug and only some people have it, everyone has it, but the higher Trees Visibilty you go the less obvious it is.

I found another weird thing, the Trees Visibility in GUI is linked to "forestDistanceFactor" and not "treesVisibility" in the configuration file.

["treesVisibility"] = 6000, is a value that never changes, when I was testing months before I had no idea, I was changing this setting and it didn't do much, now I know why, but I distinctly remember it working (it would change when reloading DCS) but I forgot to be sure, I wanted it go lower to disable trees but it wouldn't work.

Your Trees Visiblity is 80% because you have ["forestDistanceFactor"] = 0.8,



But as I previously explained, the tree LOD system is totally wrong, it has to be completely redone, reporting annomalies of how trees look from 50% or 60% or 80% forestDistanceFactor is of no help, the comparison between 30 and 100% is enough to understand this. I wouldn't waste time with the percentages in-between, because this will be automatically fixed once the root cause of the problem is fixed.
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File Type: zip DCS options.lua Worrazen 30Trees.zip (1.9 KB, 28 views)
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Last edited by Worrazen; 01-22-2020 at 07:27 PM. Reason: a harmonic proper translation an accordion
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:29 PM   #33
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I'd say anything other than 100% is asking for anomalies - that's logical.

@Worrazen, how come your HW doesn't handle 100% trees?
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
I'd say anything other than 100% is asking for anomalies - that's logical.

@Worrazen, how come your HW doesn't handle 100% trees?
I was overdramatizing, but it lowers the FPS by 10, which is enough to make it lag very noticable and much less playable.

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Originally Posted by BIGNEWY View Post
It is reported, so the team will check what we have reported when they adjust.
Sure, if they will re-chech this thread later fine, anyhow but I'm motivated to continue to dig into this anyway, might uncover something new, I'm already learned infact something new right now, we also need to be on the same page as the devs so we can even understand the fix once it comes, and vice versa.



Okay so here's the videos, I'll update this as I go. Youtube degrades the quality significantly, the original quality was a 1080p downscale from 1440p and it looked great until youtube destroyed it practically. But the features we'll talk about should still be visible okay.

Keep an eye out for the SHADE/SHADOW bands as well, theres 3 bands when more details are added as you close in, they're assymetric, there's also a lighting band which makes trees lit up and shine a bit, but in the lower ends of the Trees Visibility setting these distances are so truncated they're basically 100 meters apart or so, so you can see all of them in one sceen if you have it located and angled optimally, the thing is, that the higher level shading LODs seem to remove the effect of the lower level and while that's not a problem necessairly, but in this case you ADD more as you go higer level, this is most noticable in the end of the 4 band thingy where the shadows that were just added are completely removed prior to the highest level trees becoming visible, that's quite a weird one.









It happens in cockpit too, it really isn't view mode specific to my research, and the LOD is always camera oriented, so if you zoom in (FOV in case of cockpit view) the LODs will adjust as if you have moved your camera that far further.
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Last edited by Worrazen; 01-22-2020 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:14 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worrazen View Post
What is your Trees Visibility, that's the most important number we need?
As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it.

In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman-Ed View Post
As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it.
Oh allright, good point, well, now we can do that when we know how it works and what's going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman-Ed View Post
In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting.
There's several "annomalies" yes, I'd like to point them out even if we generally know, we need to point them out one by one to make sure it's all known otherwise the fix may not be complete.

For example, there's this Shadow LOD change line going down too close that's very obvious and unpleasing, it affects tree shadows but it may not be part of the Tree system ... more later.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:29 PM   #37
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Okay here's what I did with an exaggerated low ForrestDistanceFactor setting, which makes it more obvious what's going on, this actually led me to uncover a number of things I'll explain later.







From what I see, the LOD levels aren't linear, with the movement of the slider, but they're also not linear at either setting high or low, the high quality 3D trees only appear very close versus most of the forrest.
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Last edited by Worrazen; 01-24-2020 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:40 PM   #38
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And one other thing here, that may not be part of tree system, there's a shadow LOD level around the player that affects tree shadows, but it's placed so that it's quite obvious and sometimes you have this line and keeps following you if you fly in a certian way, it makes the shadows softer and more realistic but less dark and in some cases so much that they almost seem to disappear with some objects, like pylons.

I'm not sure yet if the disance of this changes when changing Tree Visibility, I think not.


Can be skipped to 1:10

The thing is, it changes the shape quite a bit and it's a big big change in one sweep so this could be improved but it's I guess a minor thing.

It's very precise, if I were to change the zoom level with mouse wheel it would go way back, so it took a few tries to get it right, to fly just about the right angle and zoom level.
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Last edited by Worrazen; 01-24-2020 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:47 PM   #39
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The tree shadows (including buildings etc) on the 'default' DCS setting revert back to a flat shadow at a set lod distance, the transition is quite ugly being as it's so close to the camera.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:51 PM   #40
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I feel like shadows in general are the Achilles' Heel of DCS FPS/Stuttering performance.
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