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Old 01-06-2020, 05:33 PM   #91
Harlikwin
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Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
...and don't forget the helicopters. A realistic FARP (e.g. a "rearm/refuel zone) would be awesome.
Yeah, it would be cool to have:

Road base for Fixed only (basically how the viggen was planned to be used)

Bigger road base with fixed and helo's

Helo only FARP (also usable by Harrier only in VTOL mode) that looks better than the current horrible FARP pad...

I love the various ones SUNSTANG has made for offline use, but until they are somehow "official" in DCS no MP servers will use them and that is damn shame.

Again, though this isn't Raz problem, rather a more general DCS one. Though I would add that the Tarawa being bugged and fairly useless IS a raz problem (or at least should be to some degree).

And its yet another one of those frustrating things. The harrier should be able to operate from farps and ships. And it "sort of can" in a hacky and unrealistic manner, which leads to frustration since these issues haven't been solved for at least a year if not more.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:49 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Yeah, it would be cool to have:

Road base for Fixed only (basically how the viggen was planned to be used)

Bigger road base with fixed and helo's

Helo only FARP (also usable by Harrier only in VTOL mode) that looks better than the current horrible FARP pad...

I love the various ones SUNSTANG has made for offline use, but until they are somehow "official" in DCS no MP servers will use them and that is damn shame.

Again, though this isn't Raz problem, rather a more general DCS one. Though I would add that the Tarawa being bugged and fairly useless IS a raz problem (or at least should be to some degree).

And its yet another one of those frustrating things. The harrier should be able to operate from farps and ships. And it "sort of can" in a hacky and unrealistic manner, which leads to frustration since these issues haven't been solved for at least a year if not more.
We don't need streets.or landing pad hills at all. A 900 ft Zone to rearm and refuel when the necessary supply units and the aircraft are inside the zone. Jets can't land easily on anything but road, dirt tracks. Helos could even rearm / refuel on buildings etc. add a landing T texture and some lights to place... voila, everything to build a perfect FARP, roadstrip airport or whatever.

EDIT Tarawa is reported to ED. Will take a bit, as in Russia is now Christmas holidays. But at least it is addressed.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:19 PM   #93
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We don't need streets.or landing pad hills at all. A 900 ft Zone to rearm and refuel when the necessary supply units and the aircraft are inside the zone. Jets can't land easily on anything but road, dirt tracks. Helos could even rearm / refuel on buildings etc. add a landing T texture and some lights to place... voila, everything to build a perfect FARP, roadstrip airport or whatever.

EDIT Tarawa is reported to ED. Will take a bit, as in Russia is now Christmas holidays. But at least it is addressed.
Yeah, thats what I was trying to describe more or less.

I mean jets should require a road to land on though. And maybe some graphical way of knowing you are in the FARP area.

Helos can land wherever, but a harrier would need some sort of leveled "pad" or hard surface road for VTOL landing.

As for the Tarawa thing, its been a bug since I've owned the harrier so like nearly 1.5 years or perhaps more. And its not something I would put in the minor category, much like the old ASL line bug.

PS what does ED translator mean? You translate docs for them?
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:39 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Yeah, thats what I was trying to describe more or less.

I mean jets should require a road to land on though. And maybe some graphical way of knowing you are in the FARP area.

Helos can land wherever, but a harrier would need some sort of leveled "pad" or hard surface road for VTOL landing.

As for the Tarawa thing, its been a bug since I've owned the harrier so like nearly 1.5 years or perhaps more. And its not something I would put in the minor category, much like the old ASL line bug.

PS what does ED translator mean? You translate docs for them?
That wish has been around for quite a while. The cool thing about the zone concept is, mission designers could easily adapt roads, or even grass strips as expeditionary airstrips by putting some tires, or if we could get them lights, or cones on the side of the road or field to mark the "runway". Light jets can land on grass and fields, roads etc. Helos, anyway. If we get Marsden matting, we could do real expeditionary airfields, like with SUNTSAGS mods, but that is just icing on the cake. I would be totally happy with a zone, that maybe requires a couple of ground units nearby to provide fuel, ammo, repair.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:48 PM   #95
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Yeah but the problem is the FOB(s) in DCS suck, at least for online use with fixed wing. IMO they need to have a function in the ME where you can drag/select an area to define as a "road base/FARP" and it populates some tents, fuel truck and ordnance plus a road to take on/off from with a few parking spots to rearm/refuel. Maybe with some "checks" on the terrain to make sure its flat enough.
That is completely true. The thread where one suggested that drawing the FARP etc area, or placing a trigger zone for it was like "duh, why haven't ED done that already!".

We need in future a RTS feature to designate a FOB/FARP etc on map, and AI takes care that everything required will be there at the time of operation. Be it like a 30 minutes after receiving command, minus transportation and securing the location.

It would be easier that way to command units anyways, issue commands instead directly controlling units. And you would see issued commands and plans on map instead units. So information delays etc would happen.

It would completely change the DCS dynamics when ground commanders can designate areas on map for those operations, issue information over radio to all fighters work specific frequency and then have there dynamic ground troops signaling base of operation for helicopters, harrier and like.

And it would make far more worth to fly helicopters, harrier, Viggen etc.



Enemy would need to intercept the traffic, visually etc, and then they could either engage position itself or then even track supply colonnas and attack at them.

It would make far more sense to command in strategic map that location, it's time of operation and capability to serve what kind and how many of units. And then have a AI automatically keep supplying that location unless intervened for manual planning.

That way harrier would start to operate very close to action
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:57 PM   #96
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PS: in-between the Tarawa worked pretty well in the OpenBeta, for nearly a year, it looks like the old version has been compiled into the current build.
I could cold start and hot start Harrier from the Tarawa, even spawn Hueys and fly SpecOps insertion from the boat. Though the helos spawn from the same position 7 near the Island's rear as the Harriers, opposed to the correct spots forward and starboard of the Island. Now, the helicopters spawn beside the deck and drop into the ocean again. As far as I understood, this is something ED needs to integrate into the carrier mechanics/behaviour, as part of the changes coming with the new carrier module.
Let's hope it is easy to fix. In theory it's just adjusting the spawn position(s) and allow the type of aircraft (VTOL) to spawn on deck, but that would be too easy I guess. We don't know how the effects of deck pitching, friction in surfaces, weight, drag calculations etc. create dependencies to other parts of the code, for a "simple" spawn... and that was just an educated guess.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:13 PM   #97
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That is completely true. The thread where one suggested that drawing the FARP etc area, or placing a trigger zone for it was like "duh, why haven't ED done that already!".

I think I remember the "problem" is the code checks the unit to be rearmed/refueled as "in contact" (touching) the FARP object. Not sure why this prevents to create a zone, as basically the airport zone, around the airports already provides the functionality.
I get it, that the creation of a couple dozen "expeditionary airfields" may have negative impact on performance or you may not allow an adjustable zone as it needs to check for objects inside. Still we could replace the named FARP hills with the same number of zones and give them a fixed size of the area of the FARP hill and allow for spawning Harriers, Viggen and Su-25T on the ground like helicopters... I hope this is something ED can implement one way or the other in the near future. It was one of the most popular request in the Mission Editor feature query thread.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:13 AM   #98
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Does this involve the AV8B's only weapons & system coder, abandoning the development for +1 year, in favor of a new Mig-19 module??
If they would stick to their contract of continues development of the AV8B, people wouldn't be so upset.
Yep, that's one of the reasons they hired another coder, I guess. Great move, if you ask me.
And keep in mind that you don't have dozens of competent programmers with aviation background and system knowledge waiting for an opportunity...
This is a niche product, that uses a proprietary environment (DCS SDK) that you don't learn in the university or on any other job. So while programming skills may help, the intricacies of the DCS API and environment you need to learn on the job.
From what I've read Razbam is very aware of the problems in the past and has taken measures to better the situation. I tend to wait and give them a chance to improve.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:10 PM   #99
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That is false. And reason is that many fly harrier wrong way.
Harrier operates 15-20km from the front line, but people fly it like carrier aircraft that should take-off 200-400km from the shore and every aircraft returns to carrier after each sortie, while harrier only returns to ship after last sortie. So while hornet or tomcat flies back to carrier, harrier lands to nearby FOB for rearming and refueling and flies back. In 30 minutes harrier is back in action, while hornet etc are still on way back.
In DCS, people don't fly the Harrier wrong, but all the other planes. Just that the FARP is being replaced by the closest airfield or CVN or LHA...

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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
I'd honestly pay for a decent FARP/Road base DLC like the carrier module.
Me too...
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:56 PM   #100
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Yeah but the problem is the FOB(s) in DCS suck, ...
snip
...

I'd honestly pay for a decent FARP/Road base DLC like the carrier module.
That.
Is
THE
biggest
issue
for any mission that runs consecutively after another aka 'campaign'. You can't dynamically create them, have to Physically Touch the model to get services and it stems from the same single sortie issue as the entire bedrock of DCS that draws from a single table of content that can't be manipulated in so many ways after the mission is loaded to memory. And it's ugly, although you could theoretically do something about that.

It's a bit unfair that the usage of the module is tarnished with DCS's limitaitons on it and is a bit OT, but Harriers role is quite exciting in real world, the concept that a minature airforce of 6-8 supports Marine landings, and yet we don't have:

1) Farps that can be useful, spawned or look real
2) Embarking, disembarking troops/vehicles (from ship/vehicle)
3) A properly working Muliplayer Tarawa
4) Ships that can get anywhere close to shore
5) AAV7's that can path properly if they are spawned from a ship if you go down the scripted route

Which means the Harriers usage in DCS is pretty restricted, it should have the coolest role of them all, in my opinion at least, but the surrounding DCS environment is a little contributory to it's passionate complaints.
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