Beamscanner Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Might help if you knew how NATOPS are written. Would make your argument look ridiculous, but it would keep you from continuing to make it. "Squadrons" don't write NATOPS; program offices do. Offices that deal directly with the manufacturers and contractors who are designing hardware to Navy specification, and specify updated requirements to those suppliers as they come to pass. The authoring is coordinated with test and acceptance crews assigned to those offices who confer with those writing the technical publications that the details are exact, with multiple sets of eyes confirming the material every step of the way. Your belief that these documents are authored by end users is likely only predicated on the understanding that updates can be suggested from the Fleet up. Fleet-side corrections are generally through Safety Officers for operational issues- not just some LT that got told to write up the handling of a section. Corrections, which are intended to be distributed to all commands that deal with a given type as quickly as possible, every individual in the chain- from the Captain in the respective office at NAVAIR, to the authors, the test pilots, and the fleet-side representatives who are part of the annual board review of the document, sign off. Even in the event of a safety of flight update, most of that chain is still reviewing the material- and in most instances, testing it directly, prior to sign off and release to the respective units. As such, when you state as a matter of opinion that the end user "squadrons" who are writing these documents are wrong, you're not simply incorrect on the basis of their production, but are stating that a long series of SMEs- every one of them who has direct professional experience with the hardware, software, and the operational requirements in question for the material they're responsible for, are full of it, because of uncorroborated opinion. 1. Small communities write their own NATOPS and send them up to NAVAIR to be approved. The F-5N community is very small. 2. The NATOPS is not a good source for detailed descriptions of tactical systems like the RWR. Especially when the squadron doesn't even have an RWR. Following your recent Dunning-Kruger episode over the functionality of the F/A-18C's RWR having changed at least twice over its lifetime, I wouldn't exactly suggest that is a position of strength from which to operate. There is a world of difference between knowing how the radar equation works, how received power is interpreted by an analog system for which you have documentation or a video, and how a piece of software-driven hardware- which is coded for a specific role, and an operational environment you may or may not be considering (and may ultimately be the underlying cause for argument in this specific case), works. 3. You're suggesting I'm an idiot because I came forth with documentation on a system that showed it work contrary to the DCS simulation? 4. I work with digital and analog EW systems so I understand the differences.. 5. Instructor Pilots who write the NATOPS don't have the luxury of being EW experts. Until you can provide later dated documentation for the software load in the F-5N versus that from the material Belsimtek worked from, you're demands are unsubstantiated. Doesn't matter how you feel on the matter- those feelings aren't supported by fact, but instead how you think the system should work as represented in this particular application of the type. And that just isn't enough to be making demands without material support more substantial than a YouTube clip here, or an unrelated picture there. 6. Documentation on the ALR-87 istelf (besides the NATOPS) cannot be found ATM. However, I've provided much documentation on the ALR-46 which the ALR-87 is derived from. Note how the ALR-46 document is many pages long, while the NATOPS has but half a page worth of text covering the ALR-87. Also, nothing beats video evidence :) At the end of the day, if you think that the NATOPS description of the ALR-87 isn't missing anything, then you'd have to believe that the ALR-87 has no lock tone (PRF based or synthetic)... Truth is, older RWRs didn't need synthetic lock tones because older fire control radars used lower PRFs (audible frequencies, usually between 600-3000Hz) and a mechanical antenna that stared at the target when locked on.. audible tone (low PRF) + steady tone (staring antenna) = natural lock tone (unique to each radars PRF) I'm willing to bet that the synthetic tones were added to things that system couldn't produce naturally. 1. Missile Launch - Most old school Fire Control Radars used CW illumination for guidance. CW signals produce no tone, and thus cannot be heard. 2. New Guy audio - A pilot may not recognize a new PRF tone as being much different from the others. Especially if its a duplicate emitter (ie two MIG-21s). Thus a synthetic tone informs the pilot of a new contact. Edited August 14, 2018 by Beamscanner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al531246 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Ask yourself a question: What does the USN/USMC F-5E/F/N do that a B-52H, or any other configuration of the F-5, don't do? It spends its days doing something very specific- and its software loads are going to be optimized for that. Dude, it's quite obvious you're out of your depth here. There exists a multitude of documents, videos, images and books all confirming what we believe to be true, that the simulation within DCS is incorrect. A few were posted in this thread but removed under rule 1.16. You haven't cited a single source for your hypothesis and you will struggle to ever find one. 1 Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Moreover, NineLine has said it's reported and will be fixed, so ED itself is convinced it's a bug. This puts and end to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Is It fixed in the last open beta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperatorJack Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 When is this getting fixed? any news? /да бойз/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al531246 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 When is this getting fixed? any news? It's been reported, and ED is looking at what to do to fix it. I'm in disbelief myself that this still hasn't been fixed. Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 25, 2018 ED Team Share Posted September 25, 2018 They are looking at a couple options right now. More news when I have it. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoen Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Any news yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCamper Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Any news yet? January 29, 2019 The problem remains [DCS: F-5E BRASIL] [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidtfire Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Not bad considering this thread was started back in 2017 ;) While we keep waiting, Beamscanner has created a temporary fix/mod: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=190090 Passes IC too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Maybe they have few info to understand exactly what to modify, and have to research to be sure. Recent maverick bug has been quickly fixed, but the community provided accurate informations about the precise nature of the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxDollarsAtWork Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Bumping so the Devs see this again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think they won't touch the f-5 until graphic update like warbirds and a-10c / ka-50 Is planned. Maybe along with MAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted February 27, 2019 ED Team Share Posted February 27, 2019 Guys no need to keep bumping this, it has been reported, I dont have a timeline on a fix right now. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 it appears the problem remains CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) Yep, 4 years on and search mode is still incorrectly toggling between RADARs in a search/acquisition mode and RADARs in a track/fire control mode. Instead of what it actually should be doing, what every other RWR with a search mode/filter does - controlling whether or not RADARs that show up as an 'S' are displayed - i.e long-range EWR/GCI RADARs. I'm pretty sure the 'S' on the search mode is supposed to blink if an 'S' type RADAR is detected but not displayed. There are other things missing too: The ACT/PWR button is supposed blink 'ACTIVITY' at the top of the button (I think) if activity is detected (i.e new RADAR detected, or a RADAR changing mode). The LAUNCH button is supposed to flash 'LAUNCH' at the top and bottom of the button, accompanied by a constant launch tone (like the F-16), when a launch is detected (i.e illumination or other fire-control mode detected, or the seeker of an ARH missile is detected). If you press in the launch button it should play the launch tone and illuminate in a test mode. The HANDOFF mode is supposed to play raw/synthetic RADAR audio of the highest priority threat (enclosed in a diamond). The 'S' on the SEARCH button is supposed to flash if an 'S' type RADAR is detected but not displayed. All of these also apply to the F-16CM's RWR, so I hope it does get sorted. It'll be pretty disappointing if it doesn't. Edited July 10, 2021 by Northstar98 7 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAW_Impalor Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) Whoa, years and years passed and such a vital stuff as RWR has still not been finished? I also cannot power RWR with a keybind, but only with a mouse click. It turns on and off again if I use keyboard... Edited March 18, 2021 by impalor 3 12900KF@5.4, 32GB DDR4@4000cl14g1, 4090, M.2, W10 Pro, Warthog HOTAS, ButtKicker, Reverb G2/OpenXR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Yep and all but 2 of them also apply to F-16CM's AN/ALR-56M. Only difference though is that the search mode works correctly on the AN/ALR-56M (i.e controlling whether or not 'S' type RADARs - typically EW/GCI RADARs are displayed or not), and the launch light works (though its test mode does not) and is accompanied by a launch tone. 1 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAW_Impalor Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 A related question - should I hear a sound when being locked? I see indication of that on RWR, my volume there is max (clockwise), but no sound... 1 12900KF@5.4, 32GB DDR4@4000cl14g1, 4090, M.2, W10 Pro, Warthog HOTAS, ButtKicker, Reverb G2/OpenXR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) On 3/21/2021 at 2:05 PM, impalor said: A related question - should I hear a sound when being locked? I see indication of that on RWR, my volume there is max (clockwise), but no sound... Pretty sure there should be a continuous tone for lock and launch. The launch light is also supposed to flash when a launch is detected, like it does on the F-16. Edited July 10, 2021 by Northstar98 3 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidtfire Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 This really needs to get adressed, among a couple of other issues on the F-5E. Do we really have to wait for a DLC to get some attention on this module? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said: This really needs to get adressed, among a couple of other issues on the F-5E. Do we really have to wait for a DLC to get some attention on this module? Yes and lots of it also applies to the F-16CM's ALR-56M, only there the search mode functions correctly and the launch button light and tone is there, but there's still a lot of stuff just for the RWR. 3 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 It's low priority. After 4 years, it's no priority. We should stop buying new stuff until our high priority becomes their own. Otherwise, things like this will never be addressed. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec10 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 2/27/2019 at 5:10 PM, NineLine said: Guys no need to keep bumping this, it has been reported, I dont have a timeline on a fix right now. more than 2 years later. Yeah I think there IS a need to keep bumping this. 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLiner Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 I had no idea a continuous tone on lock/launch should have been a part of the F5, I thought the F5 didn't have it just because of the planes age. Having that feature would be super nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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