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How it works the polar coordinate system in the nadir ?


edineygomes

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What exactly would you like to know?

 

Hi

 

 

Using the polar coordinates . In what situation do I use them, etc. Would I like a practical example. I found on the internet a calculation that gives you the approximate position of the target you are viewing by viviane sight and I wonder if with the polar coordinate can perform the same function. Very interesting. I'm loving the module. I'm training to pass the coordinates for the A- 10c

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It is somewhat easier to use then the standard lat-long co-ordinate system. For example, during the first campaign mission, you are told to check out something at 140 degrees and 10km distance from your current waypoint. So, if you note your current position, you can very very easily figure out what coordinate you need to be, provided you have a proper calculator and know how to use Sinus and Cosinus function (140 degrees,. 10Km). Quite useful.

 

I can't give you a tutorial now. There are some pretty good tutorials on the internet. Please look for it with Google. But the NADIR is accurate to within 10meters of the coordinates used. (1 meter should be possible, but not with the current NADIR installed in the Gazelle.)

 

I suggest you set up some training mission where you just use the ruler in the F10 map and figure out some coordinates like that.

Happy Flying! :pilotfly:

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It is somewhat easier to use then the standard lat-long co-ordinate system. For example, during the first campaign mission, you are told to check out something at 140 degrees and 10km distance from your current waypoint. So, if you note your current position, you can very very easily figure out what coordinate you need to be, provided you have a proper calculator and know how to use Sinus and Cosinus function (140 degrees,. 10Km). Quite useful.

 

I can't give you a tutorial now. There are some pretty good tutorials on the internet. Please look for it with Google. But the NADIR is accurate to within 10meters of the coordinates used. (1 meter should be possible, but not with the current NADIR installed in the Gazelle.)

 

I suggest you set up some training mission where you just use the ruler in the F10 map and figure out some coordinates like that.

 

 

With the help of a tutorial video and through a mathematical formula I managed to create a rough point , but he was 400 meters away from the target. I wonder if there would be another formula to have an even greater accuracy. I found a single video explaining how to get target 's coordinates.

 

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I think, OP refers to the function and use of the POL button.

 

I thought/hoped that this would allow to add an distance and bearing to an existing waypoint to get the coordinates of a new WP. But, according to the manual, it is rather used to "shift" a WP: it applies the bearing and distance of a WP "B" in relation to a WP "A" to a WP "C" to create a new WP "D". The result is that WP "D" has the same bearing and distance to "C" as "B" has to "C".

 

Tbh, this sounds quite obscure to me as well ... why would anyone do that? And do that so often that the NADIR features a special function for it? :o)

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I think, OP refers to the function and use of the POL button.

 

I thought/hoped that this would allow to add an distance and bearing to an existing waypoint to get the coordinates of a new WP. But, according to the manual, it is rather used to "shift" a WP: it applies the bearing and distance of a WP "B" in relation to a WP "A" to a WP "C" to create a new WP "D". The result is that WP "D" has the same bearing and distance to "C" as "B" has to "C".

 

Tbh, this sounds quite obscure to me as well ... why would anyone do that? And do that so often that the NADIR features a special function for it? :o)

 

 

That's right . I am referring to POL option in Nadir . I do not understand how and for what purpose serves . The manual is very superficial use.

 

I had not expressed myself right :)

 

I thought I could use with bearing and range to create a new waypoint


Edited by edineygomes
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Hi

 

 

Using the polar coordinates . In what situation do I use them, etc. Would I like a practical example. I found on the internet a calculation that gives you the approximate position of the target you are viewing by viviane sight and I wonder if with the polar coordinate can perform the same function. Very interesting. I'm loving the module. I'm training to pass the coordinates for the A- 10c

Sniperbob spent hours trying to do just that with no luck.

 

This explains the function, but I also struggle to understand of what use it is.

 

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I tried it both in 1.5 and 2.0.

 

The accuracy in 2.0 is better. I don't now why, cause the principle is the same and math doesn't change between Caucasus and USA ;)

 

If someone finds out why there is such a difference please let me now.

 

Other than that, it's just a great tutorial...very helpful if you play MP with a KA-50 for example!

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I tried it both in 1.5 and 2.0.

 

The accuracy in 2.0 is better. I don't now why, cause the principle is the same and math doesn't change between Caucasus and USA ;)

 

If someone finds out why there is such a difference please let me now.

 

Other than that, it's just a great tutorial...very helpful if you play MP with a KA-50 for example!

 

How accurate was the calculation ?

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I tried it both in 1.5 and 2.0.

 

The accuracy in 2.0 is better. I don't now why, cause the principle is the same and math doesn't change between Caucasus and USA ;)

 

If someone finds out why there is such a difference please let me now.

 

Other than that, it's just a great tutorial...very helpful if you play MP with a KA-50 for example!

That actually reminds me. I was playing with Sniperbob on 1.5 and I was in an A-10C and he was providing recon in the Gazelle, he attempted to give me target coordinates with his method and they were quite far off. So it looks like there may be something to that method being inaccurate in the Caucasus.


Edited by Deezle

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How accurate was the calculation ?

 

In 1.5 something between 500 - 700m.

In 2.0 something between 300 - 150m.

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I would like an example of using the system

What exactly would you like to know?

I think, OP refers to the function and use of the POL button.

 

I thought/hoped that this would allow to add an distance and bearing to an existing waypoint to get the coordinates of a new WP. But, according to the manual, it is rather used to "shift" a WP: it applies the bearing and distance of a WP "B" in relation to a WP "A" to a WP "C" to create a new WP "D". The result is that WP "D" has the same bearing and distance to "C" as "B" has to "C".

 

Tbh, this sounds quite obscure to me as well ... why would anyone do that? And do that so often that the NADIR features a special function for it? :o)

 

That's right . I am referring to POL option in Nadir . I do not understand how and for what purpose serves . The manual is very superficial use.

 

I had not expressed myself right smile.gif

 

I thought I could use with bearing and range to create a new waypoint

*bump*

 

Any new findings about how to use the feature in a meaningfull way?

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  • 1 month later...
With the help of a tutorial video and through a mathematical formula I managed to create a rough point , but he was 400 meters away from the target. I wonder if there would be another formula to have an even greater accuracy. I found a single video explaining how to get target 's coordinates.

 

 

Remember to correct for the MGRS grid in the Caucasus Map.

 

The F10 map y axis = true north for the helicopter but is +4° E of the North/South MGRS lines used for positional data.

 

UTM N = cos(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10)+CurrentUTMNorth

UTM E = sin(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10)+CurrentUTMEast

 

Here's a worked Batumi example, tested in 1.5.4

 

Initial Data

Compass

Declination +5.59° E (not sure if this should be 5.59° or 5°59'=5.98°)

F10 MGRS Grid Correction +4° E

 

Viviane Target

3012m @ 155°

 

Present Position N41°36.3' E41°36.6'

UTMNorth 460925

UTMEast 71758

 

Calculations

UTM N = cos(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10m)+CurrentUTMNorth

= cos (155+5.56+4)*(301.2)+460925

= -290.33+460925

= 460634.67

= 460635

 

UTM E = sin(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10m)+CurrentUTMEast

= sin (155+5.56+4)*(301.2)+71758

= 80.19+71758

= 71838.19

= 71838

 

Target Coordinates

NADIR

UTM North = 460635

UTM East = 71838

Lat./Long. = N 41° 34.7' E 41° 37.2'

 

Check

F10 Map Target Lat. and Long.

Lat./Long. = N41° 34.7' E41° 37.1'

 

You should expect an accuracy of +/- 0.1'


Edited by Ramsay
Need to use MGRS correction for UTM coordinates

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  • 2 weeks later...
Remember to correct for the Geographic grid in the Caucus.

 

The F10 map y axis = true north for the helicopter but is +7° E of lines of longitude (0°) used for positional data.

 

UTM N = cos(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10)+CurrentUTMNorth

UTM E = sin(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10)+CurrentUTMEast

 

Here's a worked Batumi example, tested in 1.5.4

 

Initial Data

Compass

Declination +5.59° E (not sure if this should be 5.59° or 5°59'=5.98°)

F10 Grid Correction +7° E

 

Viviane Target

3012m @ 155°

 

Present Position N41°36.3' E41°36.6'

UTMNorth 460925

UTMEast 71758

 

Calculations

UTM N = cos(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10m)+CurrentUTMNorth

= cos (155+5.56+7)*(301.2)+460925

= -294.13+460925

= 460630.87

= 460631

 

UTM E = sin(bearing+declination+correction)*(range/10m)+CurrentUTMEast

= sin (155+5.56+7)*(301.2)+71758

= 64.88+71758

= 71822.88

= 71823

 

Target Coordinates

NADIR

UTM North = 460631

UTM East = 71823

Lat./Long. = N 41° 34.7' E 41° 37.1'

 

Check

F10 Map Target Lat. and Long.

Lat./Long. = N41° 34.7' E41° 37.1'

 

You should expect an accuracy of +/- 0.1'

 

 

 

This is awesome! Ty for the formula. I set up a quick mission where I hid multiple AI units on the map and was the AFAC using combined arms. You can enter coordinates for artillery strikes and pinpoint strikes ( I have had combined arms forever but never really used it). Any way so the M109 wasn't that accurate but the M270 nailed my target. The I tried assigning the F117 and it nailed it no problem.

 

Note: The coordinates you enter for them are degrees minutes seconds and the the ones the Gazelle give you are Degrees and decimal minutes. So just multiply the 60 seconds by the decimal number to get your seconds.

 

Example 42 52.8 = 42 52' 48"

 

 

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Ramsey, firstof all thaks so much for the hint about 1.5! For your interest, i tried a correction as you stated of 12.6 (5.6 declination and a map correction of about 7). My results were ok, meaning that i was about in a range of0.2 km away from tgt. Then i made myself a little excell worksheet and tried to tweak the numbers to be m0re acurate. I put 10.6 as a correction (5.6 declination and only +4 for map correction) and boom...nailed it right on the spot. Test range was nearby kutaisi.

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How it works the polar coordinate system in the nadir ?

 

Ramsey, firstof all thaks so much for the hint about 1.5! For your interest, i tried a correction as you stated of 12.6 (5.6 declination and a map correction of about 7). My results were ok, meaning that i was about in a range of0.2 km away from tgt. Then i made myself a little excell worksheet and tried to tweak the numbers to be m0re acurate. I put 10.6 as a correction (5.6 declination and only +4 for map correction) and boom...nailed it right on the spot. Test range was nearby kutaisi.

 

 

 

I nailed one using his formula before but I didn't use the 5.59 or 5.98 for declination but rather I used the declination that was indicated in the NADIR.

 

I set up another mission to practice this and am having trouble again. I think it's because when I'm entering my UTM into the NADIR and hit enter it slightly changes my entry. For example it changed N 471719 to N 471718 and E 72766 to E 72771. This I believe is the problem because I use the NADIR to convert from UTM to Degrees and decimal minutes. So my artillery strikes and F-117 bombs were hitting just east of my target. Anybody else have this issue with the NADIR?

 

 

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Edited by DarkCrow
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I think you really need the map correction also. Maybe just try to add 10.6 instead of just the nadir declenation. Im really curious if it will work.

Btw, i found out that the distance also matters. I tried my test from about 5.5k, and found out that i was allways about 200m right off the tgt from the helicopters perspective. I didnt matter if i tried it from north, south, east or west. Only after i messed aound with the declination and map correction i could really hit the tgt.

I'm gonna try it from different directions and on different spots on the caucasus map to see if there are any other variables that affect the accuracy as well.

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I think you really need the map correction also. Maybe just try to add 10.6 instead of just the nadir declenation. Im really curious if it will work.

Btw, i found out that the distance also matters. I tried my test from about 5.5k, and found out that i was allways about 200m right off the tgt from the helicopters perspective. I didnt matter if i tried it from north, south, east or west. Only after i messed aound with the declination and map correction i could really hit the tgt.

I'm gonna try it from different directions and on different spots on the caucasus map to see if there are any other variables that affect the accuracy as well.

 

 

 

Ty. Excellent find. I flew to roughly the same spot, was within a couple hundred meters range and a degree heading as I was when I tried before. I used the heading + your 10.6 declination + correction and sent the coordinates to a M270 that rained down directly on the target!

 

The NADIR still changed my entries aswell but it didn't make a big enough difference I guess. I was using 6.4 from the NADIR for declination + the 7 for map correction before.

 

 

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Then i made myself a little excell worksheet and tried to tweak the numbers to be m0re acurate. I put 10.6 as a correction (5.6 declination and only +4 for map correction) and boom...nailed it right on the spot. Test range was nearby kutaisi.

Thanks for the feedback and spotting my error.

 

Rather than using the lat. & long. grid I should have (obviously) used the MRGS alignment for UTM coordinate calculations.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=145100&stc=1&d=1469498259

 

I'll correct my previous post and example

Gazelle_NADIR_use_MGRS_correction_for_calcs.jpg.33c8c9f225ad7ead7e9f4099c42fc477.jpg


Edited by Ramsay

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Thanks for the feedback and spotting my error.

 

Rather than using the lat. & long. grid I should have (obviously) used the MRGS alignment for UTM coordinate calculations.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=145011&stc=1&d=1469386765

 

I'll correct my previous post and example

 

 

 

 

 

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