Experienced BF-109 pilots - help needed - right roll level flight - Page 5 - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-10-2018, 02:54 PM   #41
Burning Bridges
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:07 PM   #42
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People are trying to help.
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Old 03-10-2018, 07:48 PM   #43
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Do you have a better idea? I currently fly with -12 aileron 0 rudder.
Any prop pilot has: eliminate yaw first, because the roll is primarily due to yaw. So, rudder = 0 is a great mistake.
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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як осколки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів
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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:16 PM   #44
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This might be a bit off topic but what was the reason to not install aileron trim on the German aircraft? I always wondered why that is. Weight saving? reduced complexity when manufacturing the aircraft?

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Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
Any prop pilot has: eliminate yaw first, because the roll is primarily due to yaw. So, rudder = 0 is a great mistake.
Are you saying that keeping the Rudder trim at zero is a mistake? In the special options.

Also just noticed there is a typo there, "Rudder tim"

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Old 03-11-2018, 05:48 AM   #45
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This might be a bit off topic but what was the reason to not install aileron trim on the German aircraft? I always wondered why that is. Weight saving? reduced complexity when manufacturing the aircraft?



Are you saying that keeping the Rudder trim at zero is a mistake? In the special options.

Also just noticed there is a typo there, "Rudder tim"


This sliders shows your offsets from factory settings. The factory settings are made for a historical proven power rate for steady level flight. As one can notice, using this power setting you can fly almost hands free. If you prefer to readjust the settings, you must eliminate yaw with the rudder centering the ball, and only after that small aileron trim is needed.
So, having ailerons shifted, for example, by 16 and unchanged rudder, I think, you will fly with pronounced yaw.

P. S. As the trim slightly changes with altitude, small throttle input can help for retrimming.

P. P. S. It was very common not to use all three channels for controlled trim. Spitfire has no aileron trim. Yak-18T has no rudder and aileron trim, so sometimes it needs small constant rudder and yoke input.
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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як осколки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів
There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.
Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

Last edited by Yo-Yo; 03-11-2018 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:20 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitormouraa View Post
This might be a bit off topic but what was the reason to not install aileron trim on the German aircraft? I always wondered why that is. Weight saving? reduced complexity when manufacturing the aircraft?
Interesting question, and I'm tempted to offer some guesses:
1. I think that the introduction of trimming was probably (at that time) an innovation that made it gradually into the world of military aviation, and was probably considered as a "nice to have" feature especially in Germany. And the young Germans at that time were certainly not demanding in terms of comfort. And Germany never disposed of plentiful resources, so low-priority "comfort" features didn't make it into the design.
2. The German planes were not designed for long-range operations with long cruising periods where a trimming capability in all 3 axes is really valuable. The P-51 on the other hand was a long-range fighter and therefore had all 3 trim axes.

PS the comment from YoYo is interesting. I will reduce my aileron ground trim setting and see how that works out. I did not understand that rudder trimming should go before aielron trimming.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:56 PM   #47
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Default Flying the Bf-109 hands-free?

I said earlier that I can fly the Bf-109 hands-free. I need to add something to make that a fully true statement. Because today I tried some different ground trim settings and I could not fly hands-free. The problem was not rolling however: the beast kept raising its nose even with elevators trimmed fully nose-down. This was embarrassing because I had said I can fly hands-free.
And then I realized that I was flying with my native Mongoos T-50 stick, while earlier I had my TM WH grip in the T-50 base. So I quickly swapped grips again and flew with the TM WH grip in the T-50 base. And yes, I could fly hands-free again. This is because the TM WH grip is much heavier than the T-50 grip and makes the stick lean slightly forward (if the spring is not too tight), shifting the neutral position slightly forward. This makes it possible to trim the Bf-109 for level flight.
Even if some people criticise me for an unrealistic set-up - I love it!
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Old 03-11-2018, 02:01 PM   #48
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Thanks for the replies! I never really used that option, I think the default one works great. I was flying the 109 yesterday and I was able to fly with very little input changes, near to hands off.

Although the Spitfire does not have aileron trim, the rudder works fine. But it induces drift.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:01 PM   #49
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I use the settings in the images below. This allows me to cruise hands-off at around 500km/h and 1.4 ata with the plane keeping the same heading without any rudder input.

As you can see, i also adjusted the pitch curve so the plane maintains level flight in the conditions mentioned above with elevator trim set to 0. That's why the center position is offset a little (43% compared to the usual 50%). For take-off i use full nose-down trim though.

For different speeds or power settings you have to compensate with the controls, but it doesn't need too much aileron to keep it horizontal. It does require a bit of work on the rudder if you change the power setting.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:38 PM   #50
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We had a Luftwaffe veteran pilot who emigrated here to Ottawa, Canada after the war. He had flown 109s on the Eastern front. He said that the biggest problem with the late-war 109s came from flying them out of rough adhoc grass airfields, due to the narrow undercarriage, and that there were a lot of accidents due to that factor. I suspect that spitfires also had high accident rates operating from such fields.
Having just acquired the DCS 109-K I was prepared to wrestle a fire-breathing torque monster, but I have been very happily surprised to find that it is a pleasant handling, responsive, balanced and tractable aircraft. I enjoy flying it very much. but then, I am using nice concrete airfields with runways to take-off and land in DCS. The tendency to roll slightly to right is not bothersome. Both the DCS Spit IX and P51-D require hands-on at all times, too. This is entirely realistic. These aircraft are not airliners.
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