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Old 05-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #101
SharpeXB
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The problem with the above is it’s still creating double the number of models, even if one is low poly that’s still a big deal. DCS can challenge even the strongest machines as it stands now.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #102
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I'm sorry but that still makes no sense.

What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.

You do not need two different models — you use one, and draw it at whatever size is needed. You do not need to draw the plane twice — you draw it once, again at whatever size is needed. These are wholly separate processes from using the 3D model to calculate world interactions. If they are using the drawn model for something else than being shown on screen, they have done something horribly silly and need to fix that irrespective of any and all other considerations because nothing should ever rely on what goes on in the rendering pipeline.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:31 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Tippis View Post
I'm sorry but that still makes no sense.

What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.

You do not need two different models — you use one, and draw it at whatever size is needed. You do not need to draw the plane twice — you draw it once, again at whatever size is needed. These are wholly separate processes from using the 3D model to calculate world interactions. If they are using the drawn model for something else than being shown on screen, they have done something horribly silly and need to fix that irrespective of any and all other considerations because nothing should ever rely on what goes on in the rendering pipeline.
Looking back at it, to me it looks like they were going with a low poly for the damage model container. You need something in 3D space to calculate bullet rounds, not the rendering, but you would need the 3D wire frame for bullet hits and fragmentation in the 3D world for the calculations to be calculated off I'm guessing.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorzy View Post
Are there any details more, to share with us?

Say, plans to:
a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile
b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable
c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature
d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc
e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)
f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)
g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?
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Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...
b) yes
c) yes
d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...
e) do not know yet
f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.
g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:08 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Tippis View Post
What you draw is not what you calculate. If it is, the game is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked regardless, and getting model scaling is just a happy side-benefit.
Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:41 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.
Dude. You need to calm down...
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:36 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David OC View Post
Looking back at it, to me it looks like they were going with a low poly for the damage model container. You need something in 3D space to calculate bullet rounds, not the rendering, but you would need the 3D wire frame for bullet hits and fragmentation in the 3D world for the calculations to be calculated off I'm guessing.

The Thread
Yes. You obviously need something to base the damage calculations off of. My point is that this something is wholly separate and distinct from whatever is drawn on-screen. What the graphics card does should not affect, nor be affected by, what other processes do with the same (much less with a separate, simplified) 3D object model.

If my graphics cards get a bit confused and starts drawing T90:s in the place of MiG-15:s, then that should not — must not — mean that the 1950:s plane I'm shooting at has suddenly acquired the hit calculations and damage characteristics of a 1990:s MBT. It could be drawing pink elephants for all I care, and the damage model should still be that of the actual plane because it would be insane otherwise.

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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
Ok whatever. Wags said it was a problem and knows as much about this than anyone. So good luck with wanting the whole game reworked.
That's just it: if it actually is the problem people are presenting it as, then that's the only option. If that is truly the case, they've done a Very Bad Thing™ and need to un-bad it, sharpish, as in “no, sorry, the Hornet can wait until 2025” levels of priority changes. There's really no two ways about it. I truly hope that it's just a confused message or language mixup — that they're not relying on the rendering pipeline to do unrelated sim calculations — because holy hell what a massive and easily exploitable error they've revealed otherwise.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:19 AM   #107
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I'm very certain that is not the case, as ED has been separating the simulations to the graphics engine to allow for more multi core functions and vulkan api integration moving forward.

The only thing that needs updating from the simulation engine to graphics engine, would be the info need for the registered hits to display the correct bullet hole skin, that's the way I understand it anyway.

I think they will rework what they had before once the graphics is more settled and DS sorted out some more etc.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:07 PM   #108
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+1 I'm brand new (again) after a long time and am relearning the game from scratch. I'm only using FC3 right now and I can't see anything before I'm dead. I have full labels on but it's near impossible, at least for me, at this point to pick out a specific ground target.

It makes me not want to play at all.

I see you guys arguing technical points back and fourth so coming from someone new.... I just want to see my targets and I don't care how it's done. It's a problem that I am having and it's very frustrating.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:14 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Av8rjoker View Post
+1 I'm brand new (again) after a long time and am relearning the game from scratch. I'm only using FC3 right now and I can't see anything before I'm dead. I have full labels on but it's near impossible, at least for me, at this point to pick out a specific ground target.

It makes me not want to play at all.

I see you guys arguing technical points back and fourth so coming from someone new.... I just want to see my targets and I don't care how it's done. It's a problem that I am having and it's very frustrating.
Yeah it's a pretty big problem...unfortunately you really need some sort of VR/HD Label mod if you plan on flying in VR or 4K...
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