Using "throttle for GS and stick for AOA" when landing - Page 30 - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-14-2018, 09:49 AM   #291
RED
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The fun thing here is that DAVID and bbrz are right in their own area.
While you don't need to chase AOA once you established it because the aircraft likes to stay on it (like in David's Video - only throttle for glideslope) every "bigger" correction (you don't fly optimum AOA anymore because of pilot error or weather) need to have both throttle and stick input. If you go through the LSO calls and the action required you find they follow this idea.

E.g.

fast or slow -> wrong AOA:
Quote:
“You’re fast/slow.” -> Adjust nose attitude/power to reestablish optimum AOA.
and glideslope correction only while AOA is in the green:
Quote:
“You’re going high/low.” Adjust rate of climb/descent with power to maintain a
centered ball.
So as long as your error of AOA is small enough you keep it there. If it gets bigger you need to make a correction with stick and throttle.

Sidenote
Even glider fly like this - stick for airspeed (AOA) and brakes or slip ("throttle") for glideslope.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:39 AM   #292
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This has been understood from the start RED, in my first post 2nd Page

The problem is that bbzr still has "no general concept" for this navy doctrine whatsoever and has argued with the navy pilots and engineer throughout this thread, go back and look for yourself.

Do you fly the with an On Speed indexer RED in your unpowered glider?

Have you flown any aircraft using the on speed AOA in "level flight" technique, before you come in for landing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofightr View Post
If you are using the stick and throttle to maintain glideslope you are doing it wrong, period regardless of platform. The stick is used for alignment to centerline and maintaining a constant AOA. That is what the pilots are doing in the videos when moving the stick, they are trying to keep that green donut lit and rock steady on the AOA indicator while using the throttle to maintain glideslope by keeping the meatball lined up with the datum lights. That's how it works, period.
You still don't need to go after it, the aircraft will still seek it as ttaylor0024 the navy pilot would say. Yes correct if you need to for on speed AOA, turbulence etc, to get it resettled in the on speed AOA quicker, not for GS tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttaylor0024 View Post
That's exactly how it's done actually, you really don't have to bump the stick forward or aft. Power controls you. You're going to get some bad oscillations through on speed and some bad grades if you go around controlling the nose on the approach.

Hay, what do I know? talk to him about if you need to.

It just comes down to bbzr arguing with these guy's when not fully understanding how THEY fly, utilizing the On Speed AOA on approach, he probably never used one in his life and has know idea how they work and why?

Here is the engineer trying to help bbzr, Curly's his first post with lots of links to NASA etc.

I'll re post them here for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly View Post

Really the best guides to understanding why this technique is used are the primary sources.

Aviation for Naval Aviators offers a in-depth expiation in chapter 6.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli.../00-80T-80.pdf

The early NASA document on landing approach speeds does a nice job of explaining as well.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9980232089.pdf

And the review on powered approach speeds criteria from Nav Air provides a history of the development of the backside technique in chapter 2. Though the whole thing is worth the read.
http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~durham/2002-71.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
That's not the way to fly any aircraft and it doesn't apply the every plane either.

You never let an aircraft fly you. E.g. apply power and wait for the pitch attitude to change. You always actively control e.g. pitch and power.

Furthermore you are talking about long term flight path changes which can occur (depending on the aircraft) but that's not active aircraft control.

There are aircraft which do exactly the opposite when applying power and aircraft which don't change the pitch attitude at all when applying power, not even in the long term.
Is this correct RED for what is being discussed here? NO, well it is in bbzr head.

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Last edited by David OC; 03-14-2018 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:09 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David OC View Post
The problem is that bbzr still has "no general concept" for this navy doctrine whatsoever and has argued with the navy pilots and engineer throughout this thread...
I'd highly appreciate if you would finally stop posting totally wrong and insulting assumptions.
You are quoting my posts in a random order and out of context so that they make zero sense.
It's almost funny that a non-pilot with obviously very little theoretical knowledge uses the phrase 'we' are explaining something.

For the last time: The only thing I disagree with is your claim that you don't need to actively control AoA/pitch on an aircraft.

Last edited by bbrz; 03-14-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:21 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
I'd highly appreciate if would finally stop posting totally wrong and insulting assumptions.
You are quoting my posts in a random order and out of context so that they make zero sense.
It's almost funny that a non-pilot with obviously very little theoretical knowledge uses the phrase 'we' are explaining something.

For the last time: The only thing I disagree with is your claim that you don't need to actively control AoA/pitch on every aircraft.
Well I understand this a lot better than you do, that's for sure from your posts.

Stop backpedaling and say that you were wrong in most of your assumptions here and you should have listened to the navy pilots and engineer from the start, that was posting this stuff to you "quoting you" so you could understand this better.

The context is that you were wrong here and not the man, how about just listening and understand what these naval aviators are try to teach us here and how it's done for real.


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Old 03-14-2018, 11:22 AM   #295
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Guys it is obvious you will not see eye to eye so I would suggest moving on.
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