Dr_Arrow Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 . Wow ~ It's a very smooth and seems to be realistic landing ! I also feel like teaching at a Russian flying school in a different way from the Western way. For example, it seems that the rate of descent depends more on the pitch of the stick. Ironhand: a great landing with Mig-29, should be put as tutorial thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Hyundae: As has already been said, Russian school prescribes certain landing weight, heights above inner and outer markers and speeds above them, as well as rates of descent. You really do not work the throttle that much especially in older aircraft as the engines are quite unresponsive/sluggish (L-39 is a prime example of that). Flare level out 1 meter above runway is also quite important in order to land on the main wheels. In DCS most people smash Russian aircraft on the runway on all three wheels like there is not tomorrow :) Most people believe that Russian aircraft are very resilient in landings, this might be true for a single use, but not for standard aircraft operations where the number of landings for each air-frame is counted and landings over maximum weight can only present a certain percentage of total landings (and aircraft need to be thoroughly checked after every hard landing). I have access to a Mig-21MA, which was landed hard, although standard landing in DCS as seen in youtube videos :) and its fuselage is bent in a way that the aircraft had to be scrapped as it was impossible to trim it at higher speeds after this landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Most people believe that Russian aircraft are very resilient in landings,.....which was landed hard.....after this landing. There are perfect landings, smooth landings, standard lanings, rough landings, hard landings, and then there is the russian landing and russian hard landing.... :lol: i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyundae Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Ironhand: a great landing with Mig-29, should be put as tutorial thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Hyundae: As has already been said, Russian school prescribes certain landing weight, heights above inner and outer markers and speeds above them, as well as rates of descent. You really do not work the throttle that much especially in older aircraft as the engines are quite unresponsive/sluggish (L-39 is a prime example of that). Flare level out 1 meter above runway is also quite important in order to land on the main wheels. In DCS most people smash Russian aircraft on the runway on all three wheels like there is not tomorrow :) Most people believe that Russian aircraft are very resilient in landings, this might be true for a single use, but not for standard aircraft operations where the number of landings for each air-frame is counted and landings over maximum weight can only present a certain percentage of total landings (and aircraft need to be thoroughly checked after every hard landing). I have access to a Mig-21MA, which was landed hard, although standard landing in DCS as seen in youtube videos :) and its fuselage is bent in a way that the aircraft had to be scrapped as it was impossible to trim it at higher speeds after this landing. Thank you for your infromation and advice ! The purpose of this post is, why does the MiG-29 airplane pull the stick so much when landing? It was. My thoughts may be wrong, but it 's a conclusion that the Russian landing method is slightly different from the West. The video below was piloted by a retired MiG pilot. (The ED developer has confirmed the fact.) In this video, at the moment of flare, he almost pulled the stick to the end. If you have tried dcs mig-29 yourself, it will look a little strange and is described in the same way as in the real world mig-29 flight manual. I want to hear your noble opinion. Thanks~ Edited June 28, 2019 by Hyundae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkiii Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Maybe one day, the DCS manuals will actually contain info on how we should fly them and we can all agree on how it should work? We can't even qote RL manuals here without risking our posts being deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Maybe one day, the DCS manuals will actually contain info on how we should fly them and we can all agree on how it should work? We can't even qote RL manuals here without risking our posts being deleted. How to fly/land the MiG-29 depends a lot on the operator and individual pilot, so there's no 'fixed' set of rules. Never had a problem with quoting RL manuals. Why would that be? i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The stick pull back on touchdown is just to hold the nose up, it's aerobraking, that's all. It's good practice on every aircraft if you can manage it, it just requires finesse. The slower you are the further back you have to pull. If you're near the minimum speed, you'll have to pull back pretty hard. Also uses the elevators as a speed brake if you continue it past the nose dropping. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) The stick pull back on touchdown is just to hold the nose up, it's aerobraking, that's all. The point is not aerobraking, but the fact that the MiG-29 requires quite a lot of aft stick before touchdown. Looking at the various RW videos, either the CG is further forward on the real MiG-29 and/or the stabilator is less effective, because it seems that almost immediately after touchdown the pilot applies full aft stick without risking a tailstrike. No finesse needed ;) but you can't do that in the DCS MiG-29. Btw, usually the interesting part when lowering the nosewheel (on any airplane) is, to reserve some aft stick travel so that you can control the pitch rate and avoid that the nosewheel slams onto the runway with the stick already at the aft limit. Edited June 28, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Right, I understand it requires an abnormally large amount Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Thank you for your infromation and advice ! The purpose of this post is, why does the MiG-29 airplane pull the stick so much when landing? It was. My thoughts may be wrong, but it 's a conclusion that the Russian landing method is slightly different from the West. The video below was piloted by a retired MiG pilot. (The ED developer has confirmed the fact.) In this video, at the moment of flare, he almost pulled the stick to the end. If you have tried dcs mig-29 yourself, it will look a little strange and is described in the same way as in the real world mig-29 flight manual.... Considering how heavy he was, I guess the degree of stick pull required to keep the nose from slamming down doesn’t surprise me. FWIW, I’m not sure this is so much a Russian landing method as one that is aircraft specific. Noticed yesterday that, with 50% fuel, if you touch the main gear to the runway lightly at around 290 km/hr you will bounce a bit and settle ever so gently again at 260. The same can be achieved with a sharp stick pull and not touching the mains to the ground. Not sure what would account for that because the AoA (IIRC) never exceeded 12. Edited June 28, 2019 by Ironhand YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Noticed yesterday that, with 50% fuel, if you touch the main gear to the runway lightly at around 290 km/hr you will bounce a bit and settle ever so gently again at 260. Did you touchdown at idle? Just flew an approach with 50% fuel and 300km/h. Touchdown at idle occured at 260km/h, no bounce. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Did you touchdown at idle? Just flew an approach with 50% fuel and 300km/h. Touchdown at idle occured at 260km/h, no bounce. Not sure but probably not. Given the landing weight I was probably at about 75-76 on the tach crossing the threshold. Full idle after touchdown. This would have been the touchdown at 260. The one at 290 was so gentle I wasn’t sure it had happened. Edited June 28, 2019 by Ironhand YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyundae Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) I have now simplified my thoughts as much as possible. I thought of the MIG-29 just like the F-15. Based on this, I tried several times and it made landing easier like other planes. My mig-29: Internal fuel 50%, No weapones. Approach 310 ~320 km/h, AOA 7~8 Flare init 310 km/h at 8m, Simultaneously retard the throttle. Touchdown 280 km/h, AOA 10 I do not want to think about landing of mig-29 anymore. I just have to play games. ! In the meantime, I am very grateful to many of the online members for their information and advice. My last video: Edited June 29, 2019 by Hyundae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I thought of the MIG-29 just like the F-15. Looking at the DCS F-15C game manual, Approach speed: 180 knots Touchdown: 150 knots Based on this, I tried several times and it made landing easier like other planes. My mig-29: Internal fuel 50%, No weapones. Approach 310 ~320 km/h, AOA 7~8 Flare init 310 km/h at 8m, Simultaneously retard the throttle. Touchdown 280 km/h, AOA 10 I do not want to think about landing of mig-29 anymore. I just have to play games. ! In the meantime, I am very grateful to many of the online members for their information and advice. My last video: Enjoy the sim! I wonder how much of the difference is the result of the Russian aircraft not having HUD flight path markers. Just a thought. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) I wonder how much of the difference is the result of the Russian aircraft not having HUD flight path markers. Just a thought. Neither IRL nor in the sim I'm using the FPM for the flare. Too much concentrated on the runway surface/texture for a precise flare. Edited June 29, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Neither IRL nor in the sim I'm using the FPM for the flare. Too much concentrated on the runway surface/texture for a precise flare. No. I think he's actually talking about the approach. But maybe not. Maybe he is just referring to the flare. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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