Hornet and Viper complementing each other

Great point!

Never thought about when the Mirage 2000C entered service, because its always talked about being a 4th gen aircraft - so i was comparing it to other 4th gen aircraft which have been updated much more till now.

 

So when creating an 80s scenario the Mirage is a good option for CAP!

In this case JDAMs and JSOWs are unrealistic, but Walleyes make much more sense!

That would be a great era for a scenario. The Hornet could do the striking with Walleyes (they are big bombs) while the Viper does SEAD and CAS. CAP duties could be performed by Mirages providing close in CAP with Tomcats providing additional cover perhaps coming up to cover the retreat of the strike package.

I think the Mirage can still be used as an AG platform that can defend itself in AA, if needed. The Eclair pod gives good CM capacity and it can either be a fast strike aircraft, in and out quickly, or a bomb truck for aircraft equipped with targeting pods acting as AFACs.

Let's also not forget the A-10C and the AV-8B. They certainly have a place in mid-2000s battlefields, as long as A2A threats are kept at bay. A pair of A-10Cs can dish out untold amounts of pain. And the Harriers are perfect for FOB deployment and quick CAS missions, because of VTOL and they can run light SEAD missions with the Sidearm.

It's up to the mission designer to include them and make roles for them. After all, it could very well be that even a Mirage-2000-5F could still be used as a bomb truck today, for example. If you want to keep it realistic, not all TGP-capable aircraft should have be equipped with a TGP, since squadrons usually don't have enough pods to equip every single aircraft. Once a more robust datalink interface exists, maybe we'll be able to transmit ground target locations for other aircraft etc.

Regarding SEAD differences between the F-16C and F/A-18C...

 

While the HTS will make the F-16 a better HARM platform in some edge cases, the Hornet will be a better SEAD aircraft overall because it can carry the TALD decoy. Do not underestimate the capability this offers when there's good mission design, even in MP. One Hornet can suck up half of a SAM site's missiles. Two hornets can negate a site's ability to engage targets for a long time as the site has to reload their missiles.

 

The Hornet may also be able to carry more JSOWs than the Falcon, partially offsetting the game preference for murderbots over poor cluster damage modeling (I am not certain about this, but I have yet to see evidence that the F-16C carried BRU-57/As on stations 4 and 6).

Yeah but the whole EW game in DCS is basically borked. IRL I agree the TALD gives advantages, but we don't have it in the DCS F18 either (not sure why not since the F14 has it).

Great summary, thanks!

Actually this is how i would set it up in the editor in a persian gulf conflict:

Hornets for CAP providing cover

Vipers going in first with SEAD/DEAD

Hornets dropping stand-off stuff like JSOW and SLAM-ER

Viper with GBUs as the main strike package

Maybe some sneaky Viggen attacks at supply depots?

 

Now onto the next question: How would a M2000 fit into that?

Additional CAP? As GBU-bombtruck for the F-16?

I love the Mirage, but struggling to find a mission where it is better than the other planes.

Most of the time i fit it in under "realism/lore" aspects. Like there is no other additional plane available.

Just have the F14's fly CAP.... They're pretty good at that :)

Why limit vipers to GBU's? JDAM's will be available IIRC.

You can also add the harrier for Strike/CAS/Helo escort

And the A10C for CAS

The M2k, is a period appropriate aircraft, I guess the version we have now is the sort-of updated early 2000's version with NVG lighting and a few minor upgrades, but it started life as day only interceptor, not really a multi-role bomb truck. So its dated compared to the mid 2000 era multi role jets but still fine for A/A IMO, or as you mention a bomb truck, but I'm not sure how well that actually works right now.

This is one of the main issues DCS faces. Consistent plane set. Its way more "fun" to fly with period correct aircraft, especially a few different kinds. The other issue is there aren't any modern "opfor" aircraft.

The other issue is there aren't any modern "opfor" aircraft.

The JF-17 Block I could help fill that role. It'll probably be the most modern aircraft in DCS for some time. The problem is that it's probably a little too modern, but only by a couple of years compared to the Viper and maybe a couple more compared to the Hornet, so still comparable.

The JF-17 Block I could help fill that role. It'll probably be the most modern aircraft in DCS for some time. The problem is that it's probably a little too modern, but only by a couple of years compared to the Viper and maybe a couple more compared to the Hornet, so still comparable.

Yup, thats a grand total of 1. And its not out yet. As for too modern I'd say no, but it does have some features other aircraft don't have (MAWS).

Yup, thats a grand total of 1. And its not out yet

I agree that DCS lacks in full fidelity OPFOR modules, but it's not up to ED. It'd be nice to have something full fidelity between the JF-17 and the MiG-21, period-wise. The MiG-23 is coming, but it's going to be a while and as far as the MiG-29 and Sukhoi birds go, the license holder just doesn't want to/can't, apparently.

The APG-73 SHOULD be better than the APG-68v5, whether it will be is another question)

 

CAS - Viper, more Maverick goodness

They are different radars, I wish they gave the viper the v9, a second platform able to generate and share SAR images/targeting would have been cool, and 4-target multi target track would have been excellent in many DCS scenarios. The 73 is bigger, which pre-aesa was more closely correlated to capability.

Conversely, the 68 is well designed in its pilot interface. DCS does not factor this in as best I can tell, but strap 8 amraams on a hornet and you just more than doubled its radar cross section, and slowed is down vs. an already more agile opponent. Section BVR is a different animal, and mission specific. A missile truck with nearly a dozen aim-120s reflecting radar emissions is great for certain things, like sweep as part of a strike package, where sending a salvo downrange, turning cold while your follow on group engages is different from counter-air missions. where sections are transitioning to WVR. The viper is gnarly WVR, you can’t see it, it’s fast, out rates the hornet over 90% of the envelope, and it’s datalink is not as good for overall theater SA, but depending what ED gives us, its fantastic for section Air to Air (showing which bandits other elements in your flight have locked, their missile tracks, excellent for sorting, etc). CAP is just one mission type, OCA, intercept

Look man, I'm trying to work with what I've got here, OK?

I agree that DCS lacks in full fidelity OPFOR modules, but it's not up to ED. It'd be nice to have something full fidelity between the JF-17 and the MiG-21, period-wise. The MiG-23 is coming, but it's going to be a while and as far as the MiG-29 and Sukhoi birds go, the license holder just doesn't want to/can't, apparently.

Yeah I know...

Actually, I think ED's decision to doe the Persian Gulf was actually brilliant due to lack of Redfor planes.

The IRAF, mainly operated western jets. The only Major missing one in DCS is the F4E, which they were gonna do after the hind until the "mystery jet" appeared in the que.

If you look at the current and upcoming plane set, it actually fits fairly well for the PG. The main problem with it is that most of good fits aren't the exact models used.

Iran:

F5E, (you can pretend its right, even though its more advanced than the iranian ones)

F14A (coming, you can prented the B is right for now)

F4E (coming, you can pretend the viggen is an F4 till then for strike)

Mig29's inherited from Iraq, FC3 but they work

J-7 (pretend its a mig21)

Mirage F1 (coming circa whenever, not sure on a pretend plane)

SU-22 and 24... Hard to do, Su-25T kinda works, as does the viggen but redfor strike planes would be nice.

Dubai:

M2000

F16

Quatar

Mirage 2000

Rafale (You can pretend its an F18 or JF17)

Oman

F16

Eurofighter (you can pretend its an F18 or JF17)

US forces if you want them involved

Harriers, A10's F16's F18/14's etc.. Based either off carriers or "friendly" bases.