[NO BUG]F-5E pilot does not require oxygen - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-11-2019, 04:51 PM   #11
Bersagliere81
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From my experience as a cabin crew (just for the general knowledge....)

Hypoxia only occurs when aircraft is not pressurised above 10k feet. This is why in case of decompression the aircraft has to reach 10k feet as soon as possible. Below such altitude, you don't need any oxygen masks

Oxygen settings should be
NORM is when you breath normal air
100% you breath 100% oxygen "on demand" (like scuba divers)
EMER you get a powerful flow of 100% oxygen, regardless if you are breathing or not
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:42 PM   #12
cosmicdoubloon
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I think there's still something funky going on here and would request another look is taken. I've attached a second track where I am at 55,000ft with a cabin pressure of 20,000ft. I turn off the oxygen again and still do not experience hypoxia without dumping the cabin pressure. I also climb to 60,000ft with a cabin pressure of 22k ft with still no effect.

Now I'm not IRL pilot but I'm fairly sure even in a pressurised cockpit if the cabin pressure is 21k+ feet I think you'd need to be on supplemental oxygen at that point.

Could you have another look Bignewy?
Attached Files
File Type: trk F5 o2 bug test 2.trk (367.2 KB, 8 views)
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:53 PM   #13
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I thought in DCS you are always wearing your mask.
you cannot remove it.

so even in a pressurised aircraft you need to turn on the oxygen. or you will pass out because of the mask.

im sure I saw a thread about this somewhere else..
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:02 PM   #14
BIGNEWY
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Hi, thanks for the track.

From what I have been told this is correct.

Even after shutting off the flow there is still oxygen in the cabin, only dumping the cabin pressure will create hypoxia and blackout.

I will try to ask the dev again, thanks
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadg View Post
I thought in DCS you are always wearing your mask.
you cannot remove it.

so even in a pressurised aircraft you need to turn on the oxygen. or you will pass out because of the mask.

im sure I saw a thread about this somewhere else..
With most aircraft in DCS yes, this is correct. but with the F-5E it also has a pressurised cabin which is modelled.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:16 AM   #16
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Hi Gents,

Thanks for a good discussion and BigNewy thanks for some great feedback and moderating.

I think I can shed a little more light on two of the later questions brought up and hopefully I won't muddy the waters too much doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicdoubloon View Post
Now I'm not IRL pilot but I'm fairly sure even in a pressurised cockpit if the cabin pressure is 21k+ feet I think you'd need to be on supplemental oxygen at that point.
Full disclosure, I am away from my rig on business so I can't watch the track to see how long you waited, but I will say this; You will need to be on 02 with a cabin alt of 21,000 feet, but it might take longer to become perilous than you expect. Time of Useful Consciousness (TUC) is defined by the FAA as the time between the interruption of oxygen OR exposure to an oxygen poor environment until the pilot is no longer capable of taking corrective or protective action. This doesn't necessarily means unconsciousness, but instead it generally manifests as a pilot who is still conscious and might even realize there is a problem, but mentally can't fully grasp the situation or physically can't take the actions needed to address the hypoxia. TUC obviously is highly dependant on physical condition, but the FAA shows general time ranges as a function of altitude and either a slow or rapid decompression.

In the case you are discussing, that would be considered a slow decompression (just turning off 02 without dumping the cabin). In such a case, TUC at 18,000 feet is 20-30 minutes, TUC at 22,000 feet is 10 minutes. FAA AC covering this topic is here.

Like I said, I wasn't able to watch your track, but if no symptoms of hypoxia are present after 10 minutes at a cabin alt of 22,000, that would indicate a problem. At that point, however, I don't know if that is a problem with the F5 or DCS in general; what I mean is that the systems of the F5 seem to be working correctly, but reactions to hypoxia could be coded into DCS itself, not the module. That is pure speculation on my part though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadg View Post
I thought in DCS you are always wearing your mask.
you cannot remove it.

so even in a pressurised aircraft you need to turn on the oxygen. or you will pass out because of the mask.

im sure I saw a thread about this somewhere else..
I mentioned this in passing in post #5 of this thread. There is indeed an interlock between the supply lever and the diluter lever on the oxygen regulator; if the supply lever is placed to OFF, the diluter lever trips to 100%. In practice, this means a pilot with his mask on can't forget to turn the supply lever on; he wouldn't pass out as with hypoxia, he would literally be physically prevented from inhaling at all (his mask is hooked only to a closed line).

As Quadg noted, our pilot in DCS always has the mask on. For this reason, I believe BST (now ED) decided not to implement this particular feature, as it would really serve no purpose other than making the supply lever into a suicide switch (or just killing off players who spawn too slowly into a cold start multiplayer match). No conscious person would be calmly suffocated by a non-flowing mask. They would either immediatly rip the mask/helmet combination off their head by pure instinct (or perhaps perish in the attempt if they are inept) but in no case would they sit calmly during the affair.

FOLLOW UP: Finally back home and able to do some testing. Took an F5 up to FL400. Cabin indicated ~FL180. Turned off the O2 at the mask regulator and kept the aircraft between FL400 and 430. Cabin altitude held between FL180 and 200. After 20 minutes, double vision of my gun pipper set in. Turning on the O2 regulator immediately restored pilot vision. At this point I have no doubt that both the F5's systems and pilot reaction to hypoxic hypoxia are modeled to a most reasonable standard.
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Last edited by tom_19d; 11-19-2019 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Follow up marked
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