SAM Anti-Missile Capability

Which SAMs (including ships) have anti missile ability, and to what extent?

Oversimplyfying

Redfor. Any double digit Sam.

Bluefor. Roland, Patriot.

Wish bombs could be targeted where possible

SM-2, USA ships. Anti ship cruise missiles.

Seacat. UK. Anti ship cruise missiles.

SA-N-6. Russia. ASCM.

..

Wish bombs could be targeted where possible

I think the system reaction time and signature need to be considered in that. It makes sense to me that bombs generally speaking have a relatively short flight time (maybe not those JDAMs dropped from space) and their radar signature probably isn't all that huge. So you don't have a lot of time to figure out if you want to shoot at it. So maybe that was ED's call that while it might be possible its not all that easy to do IRL.

Oversimplyfying

Redfor. Any double digit Sam.

Bluefor. Roland, Patriot.

The roland is bugged as it does not engage missiles. It used to, but has stopped recently.

Any double digit SAM? Not really. The SA-11 can only shoot the Kh-31P (which has never worked properly anyways), and the SA-13 and SA-18 can't shoot anything. The SA-15 will shoot everything, but the SA-19 only uses its guns on the Kh-58U.

The Patriot and SA-10 used to have excellent self-defense, but now, for some reason they can only engage the Kh-31P, and I think the SA-10 can sometimes get the AGM-88C.

Any double digit SAM? Not really. The SA-11 can only shoot the Kh-31P (which has never worked properly anyways), and the SA-13 and SA-18 can't shoot anything. The SA-15 will shoot everything, but the SA-19 only uses its guns on the Kh-58U.

 

The Patriot and SA-10 used to have excellent self-defense, but now, for some reason they can only engage the Kh-31P, and I think the SA-10 can sometimes get the AGM-88C.

I overgeneralized. (you'll note that disclamer in my first post). Obviously none of the manapd based IR systems will engage missiles.

I've seen the SA-11 engage JSOW's and HARMS. Same for the SA10. Mavericks too.

So, SA10,11,15,19 will engage missiles.

I'll provide tracks at some point, could you do the same?

The Tracks

Here they are.

SA-10.trk

SA-11.trk

SA-19.trk

I'll provide tracks at some point, could you do the same?

Sorry no, I don't have much flight time these days and when I fly I usually fly online and those track files are absurdly large. This is my recollection of attacking sam sites on GAW a few months back, usually SA10 or 11 but it might have been defended by a 15/19 in conjunction. Also its entirely possible that DCS "fixed" stuff so its a bit of a moving target. I've been on blueflag recently and I think SA11's weren't firing at JSOW's but that might have been because I tossed some harms their way to suppress the radars. I also know that you can script different missile behavior using various scripts so its entirely possible it was also server dependent (again, I haven't written any of those scripts so I'm not sure what can be done with them).

Also, I appreciate all you guy's effort in reverse engineering the game so we can get some useful data out.

The most tricky is set the SR radar in the best spot to detect with time the incoming missile. All Soviets SAMs with radar guided missiles can shot down cruise missiles as Syrian Buk and OSA did IRL. Even Kub system can do it with a modernized SR unit. This IRL of course, in game is a different history.

In game for Bluefor: Patriots and Rolands, Rolands were for long time over performance and now just work maybe against Kh-31P. Just do your test not sure of that. Anyway Kh-31P in the ballistic mode flight path is really hard to beat IRL. But in game is the most stupid anti radiation missile but ED just don’t care about that.

In game Redfor: S-300, Tor. Tunguska in some cases only, like Cruise missiles.

Ships: all ships with CIWS can shot down incoming missiles. The result varies depending in the size of the incoming missiles, speed and the amount of CIWS in build in the ship.

And hopefully we would see in the future the radar emission spotters, meaning any fighter that is up in the sky emitting with their radars, using datalink or using radio will get spotted by direction and distance as their position is triangulated.

As well we would need to start to see a many MBT etc getting laser painting alarms and popping smoke etc when they get laser marked by aircrafts for targeting bombs.

Lots of things would change when the pilots need to fly blind and silence to get infiltrated in enemy territory or be able perform SEAD/DEAD reliably.

Then the SAM capability to shoot down bombs and missiles would increase dramatically as they are given good early warning passively, without strike aircrafts knowing about it.

And hopefully we would see in the future the radar emission spotters, meaning any fighter that is up in the sky emitting with their radars, using datalink or using radio will get spotted by direction and distance as their position is triangulated.

 

Well here is the rub with that and let me play devils advocate.

Whose "system" are you actually going to model. PVO Strany or V-PVO, or the glorious air defense network of Syria circa 1980's? How about non soviet/Russian capabilities and employment doctrine? Also radio goes both ways, do I get real time strike data as pilot if a SAM radar lights up from the JSTAR's and Rivet joint? I think part of the problem is "realistic IADS" vs "realistic ELINT/ISR" on the other side, plus the devil is always in the specific details of Who, and also very importantly When. A 1960's IADS works a bit differently than a 1990's version, also differences between "who's IADS" and how do you simulate that generically enough for it to work in DCS.

As well we would need to start to see a many MBT etc getting laser painting alarms and popping smoke etc when they get laser marked by aircrafts for targeting bombs.

Well, with bombs, you don't have to paint directly, 1m left or right works pretty well.

Lots of things would change when the pilots need to fly blind and silence to get infiltrated in enemy territory or be able perform SEAD/DEAD reliably.

 

Then the SAM capability to shoot down bombs and missiles would increase dramatically as they are given good early warning passively, without strike aircrafts knowing about it.

The flip side of that being any time a sam radar turned on it would be logged, and SEAD/DEAD aircraft sent into the area. Again, depending on doctrine/situation.

I'm both excited and terrified about the upcoming dynamic campaign for these reasons.