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DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion


Barrett_g

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I also wonder about the modeling of compressibility. The P-47 needs to lose control at high speed dives and higher altitudes, rather than shedding its elevators and ailerons like all the warbirds in DCS.

 

Fortunately for the pilots, the D-30 series on were fitted with "Compressibility Recovery Brakes": if deployed properly, they assisted the pilot by reducing the dive speeds, thus reducing the likelihood that the pilot would lose control. The P-47D pilot's manual states that the main problem with the aircraft in a dive was the tendency for the nose to "dig in" ie; go nose down. The recommendation was to keep the aircraft trimmed for high-speed flight before entering the dive.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Sorry to be a pest ED but i am keen to get my Jugs out :lol: so any news please.
I would like to know from ED, how many more years I'm I going to have to wait to get my Backers Reward. I don't really mind the wait but I would think that if not every year then at lease every two years ED should issue a status update on items in the backer program that haven't been fulfilled up to this date. Paid Supporter & Customer. TC

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I would like to know from ED, how many more years I'm I going to have to wait to get my Backers Reward. I don't really mind the wait but I would think that if not every year then at lease every two years ED should issue a status update on items in the backer program that haven't been fulfilled up to this date. Paid Supporter & Customer. TC

 

As with every other news item ED will share info when they are ready and it is usually closer to early access. We have already had 4 of the planned 6 modules from the kickstarter, a terrain and asset pack so they are not doing bad at all in my opinion.

 

P-47 will be a great addition and worth the wait

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I would like to know from ED, how many more years I'm I going to have to wait to get my Backers Reward. I don't really mind the wait but I would think that if not every year then at lease every two years ED should issue a status update on items in the backer program that haven't been fulfilled up to this date. Paid Supporter & Customer. TC

 

Please also understand that ED decided to honor the Backers Rewards the best they could. They altered it for a more realistic plan, and wiped out any guesstimations given by the late RRG as far as delivery. You can pretty much look at the pace of previous WWII birds and get a rough idea of what we will see and when. Also take note that P-47 quality hard data has been a little tougher to come by, even more so than the German aircraft. When there is official news you will see it in the newsletter.

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I wonder why that is? I wouldn't think there were any secrets left for WW2 planes and it wouldn't be any harder to get than for the P-15?

 

Lot's of P-47's still be flown.

 

With all the swapping of companies, many records were destroyed...

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While I honestly do appreciate the quest for the highest quality product that ED can produce, I seriously doubt that anyone in this group would be able to dispute the FM regardless of where the information came from. I mean, this goes way beyond rivet counting. I hate the idea of having to wait so long, if not forever, for this module to come out just because the developers are missing some wind tunnel data.

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While I honestly do appreciate the quest for the highest quality product that ED can produce, I seriously doubt that anyone in this group would be able to dispute the FM regardless of where the information came from. I mean, this goes way beyond rivet counting. I hate the idea of having to wait so long, if not forever, for this module to come out just because the developers are missing some wind tunnel data.

 

I would honestly love to have a new WWII Flaming Cliffs pack of simple modelled aircraft, but ED has committed themselves to a certain level now, including the P-47. That is what they are shooting for.

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I wonder why that is? I wouldn't think there were any secrets left for WW2 planes and it wouldn't be any harder to get than for the P-15?

 

Lot's of P-47's still be flown.

 

Don't forget, the first and apparently only copy of complete De Havilland Mosquito plans still around was only found a few months back when someone cleared out a building that was going to be demolished.

 

Sure, that aircraft only had roughly half the production numbers (7.7k vs 15.6k), but was in production until 1950 and used by the RAF into the 60's!

 

Can easily see how a lot of the P-47 data would be rare to find these days.


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I would honestly love to have a new WWII Flaming Cliffs pack of simple modelled aircraft, but ED has committed themselves to a certain level now, including the P-47. That is what they are shooting for.

 

I totally appreciate the level that they are shooting for. I just don't agree that, just because they could not get their hands on some wind tunnel data, the resulting module would be "simple modeled". I have to believe that there is enough data out there available to them that would result in a very credible FM and surely not one that any of us armchair pilots would be able to take exception to with any reliability. Having said that, I also realize that even if Republic engineers themselves provided the data, there would still be some armchair pilots among us that would scream bloody murder because the Jug shouldn't be able to do this, or should be able to do that or yadda yadda yadda. My point being, ignorance is bliss and nobody would really be able to tell the difference anyway. And that's all I have to say about that! :doh:

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I totally appreciate the level that they are shooting for. I just don't agree that, just because they could not get their hands on some wind tunnel data, the resulting module would be "simple modeled". I have to believe that there is enough data out there available to them that would result in a very credible FM and surely not one that any of us armchair pilots would be able to take exception to with any reliability. Having said that, I also realize that even if Republic engineers themselves provided the data, there would still be some armchair pilots among us that would scream bloody murder because the Jug shouldn't be able to do this, or should be able to do that or yadda yadda yadda. My point being, ignorance is bliss and nobody would really be able to tell the difference anyway. And that's all I have to say about that! :doh:
ED has achieved a high level of excellance with their product line, I don't think they should toss that out the window just to put a inferior product out, someone would be able to tell and then the domino effect. Keep Looking.. TC

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If ED didn't give 100% into getting the Jug right. You know guys would start to question all the other planes they sell.

 

No, i'll wait for ED to give their best effort and get it right. I've been a fan of the P-47 since the 50's. I want the ED version to be as right as possible.

 

I just wish the Jug it would come out before the F/A-18C and then I wouldn't be tempted to buy the F/A-18C. Sadly, that isn't going to happen, but i'd love to be surprised.

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Is wind tunnel data the last of the info they are looking for? Couldn’t ED team up with a company that has an airworthy P-47 and get one in a wind tunnel? Sort of a “lend us your plane and pay half of the wind tunnel rental and in exchange we’ll develop a realistic sim for you to practice in so you don’t crash the real thing.”

 

Seems like there would be enough “other” agencies interested in the info as well that would like to donate to the cause. Historical documentation people, WW2 enthusiasts... that sort of thing.

 

This type of info is invaluable and doesn’t need to be lost to the ages like Greek fire and what-not.

 

Another issue I have... is even if they can recreate a brand new “virtual” P-47 as described in factory documents... it still won’t perform as well as a field modded hot rod. How do they get an authentic performance when so many were buffed by their maintenance team?

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Is wind tunnel data the last of the info they are looking for? Couldn’t ED team up with a company that has an airworthy P-47 and get one in a wind tunnel? Sort of a “lend us your plane and pay half of the wind tunnel rental and in exchange we’ll develop a realistic sim for you to practice in so you don’t crash the real thing.”

 

I think you're underestimating the actual cost involved. First of all, there aren't many wind tunnels in the world that are large enough for full scale aircraft, and renting the tunnel at NASA Ames (the only one I could find with some quick googling; there are probably a few others around the world) isn't cheap. Second: no warbird owner in their right mind would ever risk damage to a multi-million dollar aircraft for such an experiment. Good scale models and accurate CFD simulations is the only feasible way of obtaining this type of aerodynamic data, and even these "cheap" methods are extremely expensive (if done right), especially considering that DCS is a tiny niche market compared to other sims and games in general. If spending a few years digging up existing relevant data saves you x% of profit margin for the final product, it's often worth the wait.

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Only in the DCS forum do we expect others to be able to "know" that an aircraft module was produced from guess-work to fill-in missing information, when to be able to "know" exactly what to expect into the finest detail, would require exactly that information which is missing :doh:

 

Maybe ED should just draw on the aeronautic-engineering geniuses that "know" everything to complete the P-47 module :music_whistling:

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I doubt many people had the foresight to hold all that information for future simulations makers :)

 

I'm surprised that as much survived as it did. We went from WWII into a period of national hope that we could be free from that kind of fighting. Korea came about, we unpackaged all those pieces of WWII mothballed equipment and tried to fight.

 

Learned fast that the machines in development and production were both needed (gotta have something), and yet already foreseen as obsolete in the view of the arms race.

 

With our all out push for new jet engines and airframes, those poor old prop jobs just weren't seen as important. Even less so for companies that were absorbed or outright closed down. Poor jug. Never stood a chance. The field of machines being developed was just too wide to carry over many of the old birds. Their info wasn't needed....

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