What does enemy RWR do when I have him locked in M2000's TWS mode?

Hey guys!

As the title says - I was actually wondering how this is modeled exactly. I'd assume that if I lock the enemy plane in TWS (first 'lock') his RWR would not give any warning but would simply show radar in search mode. At least this is my understanding of how TWS works (radar is actually still in search mode, it just keeps local track file of the know targets and matches them / calculates the additional info)

But is that really so?

Unfortunately I have no way how to test it myself so was hoping that more knowledgeable people here can explain if I'm missing something.

You are correct.

It realistically depends on how the RWR and radar function.

The radars I know that "TWS" do so by interleaving airspace sweeps with brief interrogations of the target. Sweep-sweep-sweep zip-zip-zip sweep-sweep-sweep zip-zip-zip. Does the PSID do it this way or is it able to track a target simply by sweeps? I bet it sweeps and dwells. The info is way too good quality for just gleaning without interrupting the sweep.

And sweep & dwell is different from just sweeps. A good RWR or operator will detect the difference.

I think you're entering details beyond the scope of electronic warfare simulation in DCS...

Besides, it isn't Razbam who decides how Su-27 SPO-15 react to RDI TWS.

The way DCS works, the target will not receive a lock warning until after you enter STT

It realistically depends on how the RWR and radar function.

 

The radars I know that "TWS" do so by interleaving airspace sweeps with brief interrogations of the target. Sweep-sweep-sweep zip-zip-zip sweep-sweep-sweep zip-zip-zip. Does the PSID do it this way or is it able to track a target simply by sweeps? I bet it sweeps and dwells. The info is way too good quality for just gleaning without interrupting the sweep.

 

And sweep & dwell is different from just sweeps. A good RWR or operator will detect the difference.

Most air-air TWS modes just sweep, as long as the designated targets remain within the TWS search area. Some radars will use spotlighting once targets leave the scan area to maintain tracks though.

I only know the APG-68 in any detail which dwells in its track-scan mode. In fact when in TWS it limits the scan volume below the normal scan mode because the dwelling takes up enough time in the cycle that the full scan volume can't be done.

If TWS in a radar is tracking without dwelling then its values for the tracked object cannot update faster than the sweep occurrence. Naturally the track is based on a model of the behavior so it can interpolate/extrapolate between scans but it can't react to real changes in target behavior that don't have at least one (really several) sweeps.

Sounds like SAM, not TWS.

TWS 'just' sweeps.

Right, SAM is TWS with a bugged target. PSID in Mirage is effectively SAM. Regular scanning in ENT/HFR generates track objects so it would be like TWS. BFR would be RWS, contacts without track data.

Is Mirage managing to do PSID (analog to SAM) with only sweeps?

Great, thanks a lot for detailed information everyone (this is why I love DCS community!).

So, if I understand it correctly then. I reality PID mode in fact does SAM, meaning that it just doesn't sweep the sky but also periodically 'pings' the bugged target to get more accurate info.

But, because of how the RWR is modeled in DCS, it will only differentiate between scanned / tracked / missile guidance states and any form of TWS/SAM is shown as simple scan.

Is that fair statement?

TWS (DTWS, Designated TWS) specifically does not have this SAM behavior. They are explicitly different modes. TWS sweeps and updates track files as it goes. It does not revisit contacts. Corollary, SAM is much more limited in tracking (1 or 2 targets) but your designated target will be updated even if it's outside of the scan zone. TWS tracks will start timing out instead.

As for RWS, it also builds trackfiles in the background, depending on the era of the radar and software - in the 90's, pretty much all high-end radars did exactly this.

And yes, that is a fair statement - TWS is picked up as 'just a scan'.

Right, SAM is TWS with a bugged target. PSID in Mirage is effectively SAM. Regular scanning in ENT/HFR generates track objects so it would be like TWS. BFR would be RWS, contacts without track data.

 

Is Mirage managing to do PSID (analog to SAM) with only sweeps?

No, you shouldn’t mix PRF and scanning mode.

In fact, RDI can’t even lock a BFR contact.

RDI search mode is like RWS, but if you use HFR (normal use) you will get closing velocity of radar contact. So it’s like a fusion between RWS + VS (Velocity Search).

For DCS: TWS just scan, so RWR doesn’t make a difference between RWS and TWS.

IRL TWS can be more complicated, and some RWR can spot the difference.

Electronic warfare is a complex matter, it’s simplified in consumer simulators.

TWS (DTWS, Designated TWS) specifically does not have this SAM behavior. They are explicitly different modes. TWS sweeps and updates track files as it goes. It does not revisit contacts. Corollary, SAM is much more limited in tracking (1 or 2 targets) but your designated target will be updated even if it's outside of the scan zone. TWS tracks will start timing out instead.

 

 

As for RWS, it also builds trackfiles in the background, depending on the era of the radar and software - in the 90's, pretty much all high-end radars did exactly this.

 

 

 

And yes, that is a fair statement - TWS is picked up as 'just a scan'.

You're totally right and I'm totally wrong.