IFLOLS vs. ICLS

To my surprise I just had a “_OK_ : WIRE# 3” landing… normally, the line reads much longer… but that is not the point.

Look at the attached picture, why would ICLS show high, while IFLOLS shows low, and then on top I get a _OK_ landing.

Is this a WIP thing or is this to be expected in close?

I’am at today’s Beta: 2.5.6.50726

You fly the ball after 3/4 mile day or night so ICLS discrepancy is acceptable in close I imagine? Just hazzarding a guess here.

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Could it be down to the lack of stabilisation and it's being a little funky?

You fly the ball after 3/4 mile day or night so ICLS discrepancy is acceptable in close I imagine? Just hazzarding a guess here.

 

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Big misconception: 3/4 of a mile is not a thing for case 1/2. It is only for case 3.

During case 1/2, you NEVER EVER aim for a distance behind the ship. You aim for a groove length of 15-18 seconds. That actually happens to end up being less than 3/4 of a mile, but it doesn’t matter because you don’t care about groove distance anyway.

To the OP: once you’re in the groove (case 1/2) or call the ball (case 3), you fly only the IFLOLS, not the ICLS.

Big misconception: 3/4 of a mile is not a thing for case 1/2. It is only for case 3.

 

 

 

During case 1/2, you NEVER EVER aim for a distance behind the ship. You aim for a groove length of 15-18 seconds. That actually happens to end up being less than 3/4 of a mile, but it doesn’t matter because you don’t care about groove distance anyway.

 

 

 

To the OP: once you’re in the groove (case 1/2) or call the ball (case 3), you fly only the IFLOLS, not the ICLS.

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To the OP: once you’re in the groove (case 1/2) or call the ball (case 3), you fly only the IFLOLS, not the ICLS.

I get that, and normally I am doing this, but keep messing up as I get close. This time I just carried on, kind of like: ICLS is high, IFLOLS is low, I go through the middle. I was surprised that I got the 3 wire and was not short as of IFLOLS.

Not that I know, but I find it a bit much of a discrepancy between the two systems. In the documentation it says that ICLS is not gyro-stabilized. This was the Super Carrier Cold Start Mission in Persian Gulf and the ship wasn't pitching that much.

The IFLOS is located abeam the island on the port side, whereas the ICLS is located aft of the island on the starboard side, placing it behind the IFLOS. This is exacerbated by the angled landing deck effectively placing them further apart longitudinally.

If both are set to exactly the same angle, then "on glideslope" on the IFLOS would be "high on the ICLS" Similarly "on glideslope" for the ICLS would be low on the IFLOS.

With the exception of CATIIIC ILS, instrument approach systems are designed to get you below the cloud to fly the last portion visually. Same rule applies here, use ICLS to get visual, then IFLOS.

IRL the two are often miscalibrated by some nonzero amount anyway. Just imperfections in the calibration.

I've found it easier to turn the ICLS off once I call the ball. Either they are both telling me the same thing, in which case I don't need them both, or they are telling me different things, which I need even less...

IRL the two are often miscalibrated by some nonzero amount anyway. Just imperfections in the calibration.

I really don't think a miscalibration should make that one instrument shows the opposite to the other. A miscalibration would show same state but in a different degree, but definitely not opposite indication. Additionally IFLOS in the supercarrier isn't stabilized at all like it is IRL and also like it is in the old Stennis, big flaw that I hope they fix soon. ICLS should also draw an earth reference angular beam as being mounted on a torsion bar, also not coded correctly in supercarrier.

one is showing where you are at, the other is showing where you will be or going

one is showing where you are at, the other is showing where you will be or going

Huh? Even confusing ACLS with ICLS will not make that statement true.

Huh? Even confusing ACLS with ICLS will not make that statement true.

first one is like the PAPI lights, it only tells you where you are at. The second one is like a course intercept you could be left of it and flying right. or below and flying up to intercept.

first one is like the PAPI lights, it only tells you where you are at. The second one is like a course intercept you could be left of it and flying right. or below and flying up to intercept.

My man, that is really not true. You must be mixing things up, like flight director or something. But be assured that is not how they work.

ICLS is a raw data beam. ACLS is a datalink and it does provide predictive guidance, sort of like a flight director.

My man, that is really not true. You must be mixing things up, like flight director or something. But be assured that is not how they work.

My google span is not long nor layers deep, I tried.

ICLS is a raw data beam. ACLS is a datalink and it does provide predictive guidance, sort of like a flight director.

Exactly, ACLS has DMC (Deck Motion Compensation), something like the predictive thing you said. The ICLS is raw beam BUT it draws an earth referenced angle so it is stabilized by being mounted on a torsion bar like I said before. IFLOS is also mounted on a torsion bar. Both things are incorrectly modeled in DCS.

Exactly, ACLS has DMC (Deck Motion Compensation), something like the predictive thing you said. The ICLS is raw beam BUT it draws an earth referenced angle so it is stabilized by being mounted on a torsion bar like I said before. IFLOS is also mounted on a torsion bar. Both things are incorrectly modeled in DCS.

ACLS is not just deck motion compensation. It does behave like a flight director. If will lead your turns gradually to roll you out on course, as an example. It is predictive for both lateral and vertical guidance.

ACLS is not just deck motion compensation. It does behave like a flight director. If will lead your turns gradually to roll you out on course, as an example. It is predictive for both lateral and vertical guidance.

If it behaves like a FD then the needles comparison pilots do on each approach (they compare ICLS and ACLS to determine system accuracy) would be useless (as one would be providing relative position and the other one would be providing pitch and roll directions). I see how you would take it like a FD, but it is just the DMC in action.

If it behaves like a FD then the needles comparison pilots do on each approach (they compare ICLS and ACLS to determine system accuracy) would be useless (as one would be providing relative position and the other one would be providing pitch and roll directions). I see how you would take it like a FD, but it is just the DMC in action.

What comparison are you talking about? That comparison (between ACLS and ICLS) is not a procedure.

It behaves like a real FD. I am not “taking” it that way.

I’ve done it a time or two.

What comparison are you talking about? That comparison (between ACLS and ICLS) is not a procedure.

 

It behaves like a real FD. I am not “taking” it that way.

 

I’ve done it a time or two.

Nevermind, not going to get into an argument here. Surely you know better. Thanks.

Thats what I love about these forums, Armchair pilots telling a rl pilot they don't know what they're talking about!

I’ve just tested it again and if I take IFLOLS as a reference I get a bolter and if I only use ICSL I get a _OK_ 3-wire.

I took a screenshot from the cockpit with ICLS lined up and also at the exact same time from the LSO station. I think it is pretty clear that something is off with IFLOLS.

The LSO screenshot also shows that the ship is not pitching at this time, so all this stabilizing stuff can be ignored.

Nevermind, not going to get into an argument here. Surely you know better. Thanks.

There is an ACLS comparison procedure, but it is between the pilot and controller. On the final bearing the controller will say: “ACLS lock, on say needles“. Then the pilot replies with what the ACLS (not ICLS) is showing (“up and right”). Then the controller will check his ACLS repeater to see if that matches. If so he will say “concur.” Nothing to do with ICLS.

Thats what I love about these forums, Armchair pilots telling a rl pilot they don't know what they're talking about!

I love that as well! Fortunate I'm a real one, and I have a lot of respect for G B. Maybe not so much for some other smart ones like you. If you're going to write, try to make it something that could help someone, or at least that won't make you look like a toxic kid.