Current Status of the M2000 for a new pilot?

Hello

I've been wanting to get my hands on the M2000 but I've heard / read of lot of complains about new bugs.

Is it a good time to buy the M2000?

Is the plane in a good state? Is it still being worked on?

I don't see much of Razbam in patch notes

Thanks for the informations

Mirknir

IMHO it's in a fair state, it's not as well rounded as it was in 1.5.7 but now has a new cockpit and is being improved with feedback from AdA.

AFAIK most of the new bugs are due to changes (i.e. implementing improved radar modelling broke some stuff) requested by the AdA, in the long run the bugs should be squashed and we'll get a better module.

On sale it's a good value/fun 80's / 90's "FOX 1" interceptor with limited A2G capability, that comes with good training missions and a good SP campaign.

Get it, you wont regret it!

I will reply from the perspective of someone who flies only one aircraft, the Mirage 2000.

In the present state I would not recommend the Mirage to a close friend looking for a study sim level module. The Mirage had several updates a few months ago - including the new cockpit which is fantastic - but unfortunately, these updates brought down some critical aspects of the sim (the radar being one).

If you plan to fly the Mirage casually you will probably be fine and have a lot of fun with her. The handling is outstanding and place the aircraft on the top of DCS modules dogfighter. This is also an excellent introductory module, easy to learn, hard to master.

The most recent bug reports made by some of the most regarded players in the Mirage community :

• AG weapons: going into attack mode triggers AA radar close combat mode.
  
• radar elevation control bugged: you can't trust the min/ max altitude values next to radar cursor as soon as you move up/ down the scan zone.
  
• TWS: detect only one target.
  
• Bore sight mode: offset to the right
  
• Vertical scan: offset to the right. vertically it scans +/-15° instead of -10°/+50°
  
• SVI & vertical scan (depending on selected weapon) are triggered before bore sight.
  
• You can change radar range in close combat mode (it should be 10Nm scale only)
  
• The radar screen displays line number setting even when using 1 line mode (like displays 4 in TWS which is 1 line only...it should not)
  
• The symbols used to identify contacts on top or bottom line (V with wings or under lined) are now unusable. Like target at the same altitude, radar elevation 0° on 4 lines scan mode. The contacts should be detected on line 2 & 3 (with overlap). So it should be displayed as simple V. Currently it's switching between V with wings and V
  
• Waypoint positions are bugged. Waypoints don't appear in the game world where you set them in the ME. This, coupled with #1, makes IP bombing useless. It also means the Mirage cannot drop on a waypoint or perform any cold war style strike mission.
  
• IP bombing is not consent to release like it should be.

These reports come from Jojo and LastRifleRound. Some are new and have been introduced in the last updates, some are in the sim for at least 18 months. For the moment we don't know when the Mirage coder will be back, last time we heard of him was on December 5th on Discord to announced he had to move on something else - no, he didn't tell us.

At the end of the day, you only have two choices :

- Flying the Mirage for fun and at times, in this case go for it !

- Diving into a study sim as close as possible to the real things thanks to the Armée de l'Air input, at the moment it's a "meh …". You will have to decide if some of the bugs listed here are problematic for you.

We've been in a pretty rough situation lately. The Mirage squadron I fly with had lost 60% of its pilots in the last year because they could not wait for the bug fixes. The bright side is the Razbam update for 2020 that assured us to complete the module this year. Some of us still have faith.

I will reply from the perspective of someone who flies only one aircraft, the Mirage 2000.

 

In the present state I would not recommend the Mirage to a close friend looking for a study sim level module. The Mirage had several updates a few months ago - including the new cockpit which is fantastic - but unfortunately, these updates brought down some critical aspects of the sim (the radar being one).

 

If you plan to fly the Mirage casually you will probably be fine and have a lot of fun with her. The handling is outstanding and place the aircraft on the top of DCS modules dogfighter. This is also an excellent introductory module, easy to learn, hard to master.

 

The most recent bug reports made by some of the most regarded players in the Mirage community :

• AG weapons: going into attack mode triggers AA radar close combat mode.
  
• radar elevation control bugged: you can't trust the min/ max altitude values next to radar cursor as soon as you move up/ down the scan zone.
  
• TWS: detect only one target.
  
• Bore sight mode: offset to the right
  
• Vertical scan: offset to the right. vertically it scans +/-15° instead of -10°/+50°
  
• SVI & vertical scan (depending on selected weapon) are triggered before bore sight.
  
• You can change radar range in close combat mode (it should be 10Nm scale only)
  
• The radar screen displays line number setting even when using 1 line mode (like displays 4 in TWS which is 1 line only...it should not)
  
• The symbols used to identify contacts on top or bottom line (V with wings or under lined) are now unusable. Like target at the same altitude, radar elevation 0° on 4 lines scan mode. The contacts should be detected on line 2 & 3 (with overlap). So it should be displayed as simple V. Currently it's switching between V with wings and V
  
• Waypoint positions are bugged. Waypoints don't appear in the game world where you set them in the ME. This, coupled with #1, makes IP bombing useless. It also means the Mirage cannot drop on a waypoint or perform any cold war style strike mission.
  
• IP bombing is not consent to release like it should be.

 

These reports come from Jojo and LastRifleRound. Some are new and have been introduced in the last updates, some are in the sim for at least 18 months. For the moment we don't know when the Mirage coder will be back, last time we heard of him was on December 5th on Discord to announced he had to move on something else - no, he didn't tell us.

 

At the end of the day, you only have two choices :

- Flying the Mirage for fun and at times, in this case go for it !

- Diving into a study sim as close as possible to the real things thanks to the Armée de l'Air input, at the moment it's a "meh …". You will have to decide if some of the bugs listed here are problematic for you.

 

We've been in a pretty rough situation lately. The Mirage squadron I fly with had lost 60% of its pilots in the last year because they could not wait for the bug fixes. The bright side is the Razbam update for 2020 that assured us to complete the module this year. Some of us still have faith.

Good summary :thumbup:

Just the “waypoint not in the right place” which wasn’t a problem last time I checked with INS drift off. Will retry...

The missing release consent in CCPL + PI is a bug. But DCS mission editor ruler (or F10 map) doesn’t provide accurate enough data.

Given INS drift rate, this is the only mode where you would attack on coordinates, the Initial Point designation acting as INS update shortly before release.

In direct CCPL or CCIP you would have eyes on target, you don’t attack waypoint in blind mode :smilewink:

+ there is some missing functionality. radar memory mode, magic symbology while in cclt, 530 lock tone etc.Also, haven't seen so far anything from the respective simulator photo that razbam posted some time ago.

I agree with the folks above.

Current state makes the M2000 unplayable in air-to-air multiplayer environments.

I would add the bug where you get an SVI lock on radar but no box on the HUD.

Amazing plane for free flying though !

As tugais as explained very well, the Mirage is currently in a pretty rough shape, much worse than it was a year ago, so I highly recommend to not buy it for now!

Ok thank you for the answers.

I will wait until i see some fixes in the patch notes.

Is the mirage still being worked on or are they full time on new stuff?

Ive seen screenshots of the m2000 pilot so i guess its still being worked on?

From an artistic point of view the Mirage is indeed being worked on. Code wise it's unclear, Elwood, the Mirage coder said on December 5th that he had to attend another task. This is the last time he mentioned working on the Mirage on Discord.

The Mirage is not going anywhere, you can still wait for the bug fixes and enjoy a future sale to buy it.

For what it’s worth, I’m a noob. Still learning the systems and single player only. But I love the Mirage. And despite what some people say, it is still being worked on. The brand new cockpit, new radar coding, new pilot model (its coming) shows there involvement in this module. Are there bugs? Yep. Do I lose sleep over them? Nope.

For what it’s worth, I’m a noob. Still learning the systems and single player only. But I love the Mirage. And despite what some people say, it is still being worked on. The brand new cockpit, new radar coding, new pilot model (its coming) shows there involvement in this module. Are there bugs? Yep. Do I lose sleep over them? Nope.

More positive news...

Yes the new VR pilot is coming, I believe the next Open Beta Update. I hope you guys like it.

A lot of hours went into and it's fully 3D scanned accurate Pilot Model. Here it is, well what it was scanned from.

Guys please stay on topic

The Mirage suffers in all of its missions. There's not one mission set you can perform that some bug doesn't put you at a major disadvantage. The HUD suffers parallax issues that make any bombing but dive bombing more inaccurate than it needs to be. Ramsay's done some great work in showing this.

Bugged TWS means without GCI you're going to have a hard time being competitivd in BVR against maneuvering and dynamic opponents.

Bugged ACM modes make dogfighting a little annoying, though the Mirage really shines here, especially if you limit it to guns.

The INS update isn't realistic and has been incorrect literally for years.

RAZBAM has announced many new projects, but relatively simple bugs to fix have remained in the Mirage for years with new obes being introduced with every update. I'm not sure what to make of that but it doesn't look good.

Jojo, not to get off topic, but I remeber you linking a French website for offset bombing using coordinate mode. I can't seem to find the link. I'd like to run some tests and I think that site can help.

More positive news...

 

Yes the new VR pilot is coming, I believe the next Open Beta Update. I hope you guys like it.

A lot of hours went into and it's fully 3D scanned accurate Pilot Model. Here it is, well what it was scanned from.

 

Excellent

It's a fantastic aircraft and I agree that despite the magnificent new cockpit, there are some annoying bugs. I've had real trouble doing any ground attack work over the close range radar mode coming on all the time. Still, if it gets ironed out soon, get it. The missions and campaigns that ship with it are some of the highest-quality in DCS as well.

Yes Pilot body is very nice, but personally I‘d rather see the many bugs adressed .

Yes Pilot body is very nice, but personally I‘d rather see the many bugs adressed .

Yep, the 3D guy is doing his job :thumbup:

For the systems...no news :(

Unfit for duty as far as I'm concerned. :cry:

Yep, the 3D guy is doing his job :thumbup:

For the systems...no news :(

 

Unfit for duty as far as I'm concerned. :cry:

I'm waiting for the next DCS update for my rant but yeah, same feeling, too much bugs.

Can't do any missions without running into bugs and, most of all, stuff that is broken but was working before.

can't rely on my trusty Mirage for our squad missions anymore: BVR is now very difficult given the radar bugs, and air ground precision just don't allow any serious engagement.

i switched to the JF-17 for any serious missions. fed up waiting for bugs corrections.

The same for me except a JF-17 :music_whistling:

I've gone to F-16C hangar :smilewink:

so I guess they haven't fixed the special modes for the radar? I made a thread about this in September saying how bugged they were. They couldn't get a lock on anything over 3nm

I have read few threads as I'd like to start flying finally (or better: start to learn to fly these things) and my question is: Is Mirage worth the time I have for flying?

Or is it better to switch my attention to another module (Mig-21/A-10C or buying one more)?

As some time after I had bought this module I printed manual as I prefer paper over PC screen. And shortly after they changed the module so there was information that my manual is just outdated (not that cheap waste now). And I do not want to spend time on something that might be overhauled again after myself spending hours to learn the stuff.

I have read few threads as I'd like to start flying finally (or better: start to learn to fly these things) and my question is: Is Mirage worth the time I have for flying?

I enjoy the Mirage but I'm only dipping into it now and then, as I have other modules to play with.

It's an enjoyable module but still very much WIP as it's refactored to meet the AdA's requirements.

Unfortunately this, plus the 2.5.6 beta changes, break some of Baltic Dragons training missions and SP campaign triggers, etc. and you can't be sure what will or will not work until both 2.5.6 and Mirage development has settle down.

Or is it better to switch my attention to another module (Mig-21/A-10C or buying one more)?

If your time is limited, you likely should focus on older/more complete modules A-10C, Ka-50, etc. perhaps even the F/A-18C as it nears maturity.

That said, there's still a lot of fun to be had out of the Mirage i.e. it's one of the easier modules to learn, so YMMV.

I will reply from the perspective of someone who flies only one aircraft, the Mirage 2000.

 

In the present state I would not recommend the Mirage to a close friend looking for a study sim level module. The Mirage had several updates a few months ago - including the new cockpit which is fantastic - but unfortunately, these updates brought down some critical aspects of the sim (the radar being one).

 

If you plan to fly the Mirage casually you will probably be fine and have a lot of fun with her. The handling is outstanding and place the aircraft on the top of DCS modules dogfighter. This is also an excellent introductory module, easy to learn, hard to master.

 

The most recent bug reports made by some of the most regarded players in the Mirage community :

• AG weapons: going into attack mode triggers AA radar close combat mode.
  
• radar elevation control bugged: you can't trust the min/ max altitude values next to radar cursor as soon as you move up/ down the scan zone.
  
• TWS: detect only one target.
  
• Bore sight mode: offset to the right
  
• Vertical scan: offset to the right. vertically it scans +/-15° instead of -10°/+50°
  
• SVI & vertical scan (depending on selected weapon) are triggered before bore sight.
  
• You can change radar range in close combat mode (it should be 10Nm scale only)
  
• The radar screen displays line number setting even when using 1 line mode (like displays 4 in TWS which is 1 line only...it should not)
  
• The symbols used to identify contacts on top or bottom line (V with wings or under lined) are now unusable. Like target at the same altitude, radar elevation 0° on 4 lines scan mode. The contacts should be detected on line 2 & 3 (with overlap). So it should be displayed as simple V. Currently it's switching between V with wings and V
  
• Waypoint positions are bugged. Waypoints don't appear in the game world where you set them in the ME. This, coupled with #1, makes IP bombing useless. It also means the Mirage cannot drop on a waypoint or perform any cold war style strike mission.
  
• IP bombing is not consent to release like it should be.

 

These reports come from Jojo and LastRifleRound. Some are new and have been introduced in the last updates, some are in the sim for at least 18 months. For the moment we don't know when the Mirage coder will be back, last time we heard of him was on December 5th on Discord to announced he had to move on something else - no, he didn't tell us.

 

At the end of the day, you only have two choices :

- Flying the Mirage for fun and at times, in this case go for it !

- Diving into a study sim as close as possible to the real things thanks to the Armée de l'Air input, at the moment it's a "meh …". You will have to decide if some of the bugs listed here are problematic for you.

 

We've been in a pretty rough situation lately. The Mirage squadron I fly with had lost 60% of its pilots in the last year because they could not wait for the bug fixes. The bright side is the Razbam update for 2020 that assured us to complete the module this year. Some of us still have faith.

Are these bugs still present? are the issues on beta or stable I am considering buying the Mirage this current sale.