a-10 weapons in fc2

So you cant select hi/low anymore in fc2 for fire rate, and the accuracy has gone to shit... but i also noticed that some t-80s are damn near impossible to kill!! sometimes ill make 3 or more passes... granted i always try to conserve ammo... but in some missions ill end up flying back to reload everything. just how many shots should it take to kill one? everything else in the game takes now even a quarter to half second burst at almost a mile off... t80's i can only garuntee one to pop at under .4-.2 miles at which point your 10 feet off the ground peaking 250+mph and getting shot by anything and everything around it! and i dont waste mav's on them, i use them to clear antiair cause you certainly cant hit THOSE anymore thanks to the new accuracy model of the cannon!

second, what are the minimum altitude release points for the bombs? expecially 20's'... ive had some luck narrowing it down to around 1000 feet maybe? but sometimes im above it, sometimes im below it, sometimes they arm, sometimes they dont. i find im rarely above this mark when i get close enough to release unless im using ccrp which i rarely use, especially on a moving target... or when the sides or flank are coverd by an aa threat which means id like to stay on one side of the target as much as possible to pull a quick turn to bail away and make another run in at the targets where ccrp would have you right in a nice window to get shot at.

third, how bloody long is the release with a sidewinder now! there were finally a pair of su25's in the mission i just flew in the first campaign and i locked on several times but broke out of lock without the damn thing ever going off the rail!! it seems like almost a second and a half or more to fire. its very hard sometimes, especially driven so close to the ground with a high aspect target zipping around to keep that small ass seaker window on target, not to mention while his partner is breaking around to come from your 6!! i need to lock launch and leave not get so preciese and long like it was going to be a cannon shot, whats the point!! also, whats the range for lock now? that to seems to be cut. i had 2 incomming at me before it would even get a launch tone! 4-5 miles it seemed on a closing head on target? it should be double that for an aim, no?

wingman... my comment here, ****ing useless. he doesnt seem to want to enguge anything but the primary targets, always says cant comply if i say air or air defense (or runs towards the biggest sam out there miles away from posing any danger to the mission area) or if i say cover me, he usually runs in over sam or aaa and gets torn to bits like if they had cloaking devices and really really really really strong magnets aimed at him.

not really a weapon related, but it has cost me 1 plane in the mission thus far. i had to delete the command it was getting so bad. if by chance you turn on the autopilot, on purpose or accidental brush with the a key, instead of following a waypoint course, leveling out or whatever, it goes into a diving banked turn towards the ground, cuts the throttles and puts out the airbrake, until you ground in. ejection is the only method of escape unless you are high enough to fight the horrible trim (which doesnt automatically reset?!?!) while hoping you arent being launched at by sam or another air threat from below! you can flip through any waypoint and it just spirals you down in the other direction while turning to the waypoint heading... but never levels out.

what the holy hell is going on?

So you cant select hi/low anymore in fc2 for fire rate, and the accuracy has gone to shit...

Welcome to the Real World where you cannot do it either ;)

No rate-of-fire toggle switch in the A10 and accordingly not modelled.

.....but i also noticed that some t-80s are damn near impossible to kill!! sometimes ill make 3 or more passes... granted i always try to conserve ammo... but in some missions ill end up flying back to reload everything. just how many shots should it take to kill one? everything else in the game takes now even a quarter to half second burst at almost a mile off... t80's i can only garuntee one to pop at under .4-.2 miles at which point your 10 feet off the ground peaking 250+mph and getting shot by anything and everything around it! and i dont waste mav's on them, i use them to clear antiair cause you certainly cant hit THOSE anymore thanks to the new accuracy model of the cannon!

Ermm....No! Watch the following track -

Drop in on it from above and preferably the rear:

[ATTACH]39815[/ATTACH]

Welcome to the Real World where you cannot do it either ;)

 

No rate-of-fire toggle switch in the A10 and accordingly not modelled.

 

 

 

 

Ermm....No! Watch the following track -

 

 

Drop in on it from above and preferably the rear:

 

[ATTACH]39815[/ATTACH]

I think you may be wrong on the first comment. I was reading this book written by a hog driver in the gulf war, and he said in there that they rarely used the low rate of fire option since it was a death trap. Maybe he was referring to smoething else though.

The low rate of fire USED to be selectable in the A-10A, but at some point the wiring for it was simply removed, or the FCS no longer registered it. Low rate of fire is no longer operable on today's A-10's.

I read that it was pretty much decided that there wasnt any point in having to spend more time on target to spend the same amount of gunfire, so as mentioned the option was removed.

Its worth noting as well that 1/4 to 1/2 second is very very short compared to the real-life estimates for amount of rounds to cripple a MBT. Versus an IFV, sure thats reasonable perhaps. Not sure about the cannon's dispersion. Unless firing at a target about a mile or more out, it seems acceptable. Only time its "lacking" is when trying to silence a Shilka with the gun to conserve Mavericks, but that doesnt seem unreasonable either.

Also, I think its totally reasonable to use the Mavericks against heavy armor. If you're flying a campaign mission early on, you'll be assigned to take out maybe 3 targets. Use the Mavericks against the AA units around, and the remainder of your Mavericks on the heavy armor. Even though it can be fun at times to see how many targets you can pick off during a mission, generally its best to just take out the targets assigned and return to base.

Agreed 100% on the Wingman though, but meh! Thats really lacking in most sims.

If you haven't seen it, you might want to peruse the Warthog Coloring Book which details the gun's effectiveness against the T-62. Bear in mind that the T-80 is considerably better protected than a T-62. Also this image visually shows the typical dispersion of the gun at 1 mile.

The game doesn't have mobility/mission kills so it has to strike a balance - it's not realistic for an A-10 to destroy a modern tank from a half-second burst at a mile distant. Using the gun against a modern tank, you're more likely to score a mission kill than to 'destroy' the tank, and even then it's only going to be because you get lucky with one of your rounds.

So overall, I think the way it's presented in FC2 is reasonable. Thin-skinned vehicles can easily be destroyed from quite some distance just by firing enough rounds that one hits it. Heavily armored vehicles take more of a beating, but can still be killed with the gun. You'll be wasting ammo if you try to take them out from a distance though, since so many of the rounds will miss.

Shilkas and Vulcans and easy enough to take out with the cannon, since they're not well armored. Start firing at 1.1 miles and stop and break at 1.0 before they start firing at you. Takes a bit of practice to be able to do it reliably (still often takes me 2-3 passes) but shooting a vehicle from a mile distant with a fixed gun mounted in an aircraft doing 200+ knots shouldn't be easy, IMO. Where's the satisfaction if it doesn't take practice?

It will be interesting to compare the arming delay of the A-10 in FC2 against DCS: A-10C. Most sims I've played have a weapon release delay of about the same length, so I don't think it's completely unreasonable. I haven't been able to find any figures for the acquisition range of the Sidewinder seeker, though.

The Sidewinder has a lot of variants, some go ballistic in high G, have a narrow acquisition cone, track slowly, some are too sensitive all-aspect and chase clouds, more or less easily distracted by sudden heat flares, some of these things are related to seeker sensitivity and thus acquisition range, there are also different types of charges and fuses.

The A-10 probably started off with the AIM-9J then got the AIM-9L in the 80s and AIM-9M in the 90s or might use surplus AIM-9L (since afaik these weren't converted to the new standard but just replaced on the production line). I remember the 80s and seeing the grey/black AIM-9L on US warbirds instead of the familiar white Sidewinder, even on something like an F-16 was a bit of a novelty.

FC2 would model AIM-9M for all Sidewinders I'm guessing?

The AIM-9M is basically an improved L with less smokey engine and doesn't get distracted by sudden heat flares (like countermeasures) as easily. It's not as good as something like a Python-4 or an R-73.

The AIM-9L it came from was the big jump forwards in the 80s being the first all-aspect (but likes to chase clouds and flares), it is fast tracking and very manoeuvrable, it's combat proven and does work with dramatic improvement in reliability and performance to all earlier Sidewinder versions.

Understanding the progression of Sidewinder development seems important to realising that sim modelling of its faults would appear to be pretty realistic.

Versions on USAF Phantoms (9B-D) couldn't track a target in a sustained turn or sudden directional changes at close quarters (narrow field, slow track rate, poor G-capabilities), and also had a problem with seeker cooling, which had to be switched on just before the fight (they'd crack the seeker if left on too long), so they were no good if you got bounced or weren't expecting a dogfight, or it dragged on too long.

Essentially they were best used against an enemy flying in a straight line, at very close range, pointed directly at his tailpipe.

The improved 9E had sustained cooling and better track rate but kept the other problems and that was the model used into the mid-70s.

In the 70s the 9J came along optimised as an "AI dogfighter" with a long burn motor and much improved G capabilities, but was essentially a conversion of the earlier types.

Then the USAF and USN jointly developed the 9L which was a leap ahead, but by this time it wasn't a big enough leap not to be overtaken by other nations SRAAM development, so that by the 9M the US was a generation behind.

So when talking about the fantastic performance of the AIM-9M you see it is really a relative thing among earlier versions, I wouldn't expect one to perform as well in game as just about any other SRAAM (probably same as Magic2 and worse than R-73).

And using an A-10 versus Su-25 we're talking about manoeuvres which really take the ability of a SRAAM to track to its very limits, at least with air superiority fighters the speeds involved in dogfight make manoeuvres much more sweeping, despite the high G involved.

If the AIM-9M was going to fall down in performance, particularly in tracking I'd expect it to happen on a slow moving launch aircraft in a turn fight at close quarters, this is its biggest sore point compared to the high off-boresight Archer.

Sounds like accurate modelling to me.

well about the aim 9 its not the lock, seek or hit problem, its a "i have to hold the trigger down to long for it to leave the rail finally to keep the target locked on the hud" problem. once its left i rarely have a problem, its pretty good against ignoring flares if you are behind trailing (which never happens in an a10 dogfight against anything but rotorcraft or drunk frogfoot pilots haha).

i used to be able to do the shilka 1.1-.9 trick in fc1 and lomac, but no longer in fc2 simply because none of the rounds have a change in hell of hitting unless you have some VERY high aspect... i guess if you are going in for the initial run you might be that high up to get the angle down enough, but you cant tell what it is that far/high unless youve already passed and id'd, at which point i find im already well under 2000 feet alt.

call me anal though, but i HATE just doing the mission. nothing satisfying about hitting 3 t80s, i kill EVERYHTING in the field that i can find. only thing ill leave along are the off distant sam sights as im usually already 40 minutes into a mission and dont feel like going back for a reload then head all the way back out.

it is surprising however how easy they are to take out... a low approach skim of earth stright on and they never get a shot off, about a half mile in you can pop up and you are too close for them to lock and can just loiter around and pop them at will with the avenger. rockets seem pretty good for them too, they are pretty soft targets, and once you hit the central radar controller none of the independant launchers can launch at you, from any distance/altitude so you can take your sweet time.

ill check out the track after work, i was always curious where the sweet spot is for t80s but at a distance its lucky i get 3-6 hits on at anything close then a half mile, sometimes i even get luck with aiming well low and having the ricochets splash up broadside on the tank, but that usually takes a few passes and/or WAY too much ammo for a single target.

if i were just killing assigned targets then i guess it would be much more acceptable, but it still seems like a sad waste. internets says avengers good for 80% within 5 mil at .75 mile... 1 mil is about 1 inch at 100 yard so 80% of a burst at the same spot should land within a 88 inch circle, 7 foot. thats pretty damn precise, and a t80 is 32 feet long and 7 foot tall acording to wiki... so a broadside thats still alot of hits almost garunteed to hit with a center aimpoint.

ah well ill check out the track im curious now haha

One-circle fights not working for you? ...

well about the aim 9 its not the lock, seek or hit problem, its a "i have to hold the trigger down to long for it to leave the rail finally to keep the target locked on the hud" problem. once its left i rarely have a problem, its pretty good against ignoring flares if you are behind trailing (which never happens in an a10 dogfight against anything but rotorcraft or drunk frogfoot pilots haha).

if i were just killing assigned targets then i guess it would be much more acceptable, but it still seems like a sad waste. internets says avengers good for 80% within 5 mil at .75 mile... 1 mil is about 1 inch at 100 yard so 80% of a burst at the same spot should land within a 88 inch circle, 7 foot. thats pretty damn precise, and a t80 is 32 feet long and 7 foot tall acording to wiki... so a broadside thats still alot of hits almost garunteed to hit with a center aimpoint.

I kinda wonder just how accurate the GAU8 is currently ingame. In LOMAC it was very accurate. Is there any way to accurately gauge its relative accuracy as it is currently represented?

one circle flights meaning?

that track doesnt work, in fc2 it just flies in a spiral down then shoots at nothing, then crashes right into the ground... and fc1 doesnt even open it.

In LOMAC it was a laser. In FC2 it is realistic.

I kinda wonder just how accurate the GAU8 is currently ingame. In LOMAC it was very accurate. Is there any way to accurately gauge its relative accuracy as it is currently represented?

you quoted the aim9 part...not following. i find it never occures in aa against another jet while in a10 a traditional combat "dogfight" style merge, usually they simple pull much higher on you on a direct approach, launch once or twice and then try to get in at your rear for guns, but they are much faster, usually much higher and thus pretty much own the engagement... you can cut tight circles but you lose all your speed and thus ability to corner later, but when you do get nose on and establish a valid lock, the launch authorization delay seems far to long, and i find it often times if i am even able to get nose on target and get a lock, they are moving out of any vector that i can hope to follow long enough WHILE keeping a valid lock for a launch, especially when you factor in the very important computer joystick factor! not to mention the fact that they always come in pairs, split up and encircle, and your wingman always refuses to engage air threats or cover your six 90% of the time!

it might be accurate, i dont know, but no other sim nor plane, not even falcon series has such a lengthy delay time with the aim. i dunno ill have to do some experimenting but i was just curious if anyone else found the matter while switching from lomac/fc1 to fc2. i cant wait for thier dedicated a10 release!

Well, there's a reason the A-10 has never been used for air-to-air combat throughout its entire service history... and I'm pretty sure its very few air-to-air kills have been against helicopters. The arming delay on the Sidewinder might be a bit long, but it's definitely usable. I've killed F-16s with head-on passes in the A-10, and I'm certainly not the world's greatest Hog driver, so it's definitely doable.

I understand the desire to kill all and sundry, however also remember that while simplistic compared to DCS titles, FC2 is still a sim, and killing all and sundry is incredibly unrealistic. You might prefer to play with game mode or at least unlimited weapons, if 'realistic' gameplay doesn't appeal to you.

If your targets are undefended, then getting in close to pop those MBTs with your cannon isn't a problem. If they are defended in a realistic manner, then you're either going to be engaging with stand-off weapons like the Maverick, or you'll be making a single pass and hoping for the best.

A 2 second delay is pretty standard in pickle-release weapons (AIM-9s, CBUs, etc.). Perhaps this delay wasn't modeled in previous versions of LockOn but is now correctly modeled?

Too hard to kill with a-10 cannon? Man try the su-25 then come back to the a-10. The cannon and short turning circle is the only reason I occasionally use the a-10 it's fun busting up targets like that. There's a shitload of rounds.

Also try kill all targets in su-25t campaign, it will take you 4 hours...

My main problem with a-10 is the maverick camera sometimes I slew one way and it gos another WTF!

Too hard to kill with a-10 cannon? Man try the su-25 then come back to the a-10. The cannon and short turning circle is the only reason I occasionally use the a-10 it's fun busting up targets like that. There's a shitload of rounds.

 

Also try kill all targets in su-25t campaign, it will take you 4 hours...

 

My main problem with a-10 is the maverick camera sometimes I slew one way and it gos another WTF!

+1 on the Su-25 Cannon. Take 4 gunpods and they are still very weak that you cannot kill any armour barley. Mind you I have no idea if this is realistic or not.

The A-10 slewing bug is a bad bug to be sure.

In LOMAC it was a laser. In FC2 it is realistic.

Funny you use the word 'laser' GGTharos. That is exactly how I've heard it described by publically available written reports from Warthog pilots.

The drop is relatively minimal apparently 10 feet at 4000 feet range (2/3 nautical mile), and with a high rate of fire and tracers it would look a bit like a straight beam from the cockpit.

Maverick problems are also reported in the following thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=53930

While waiting for the DCS A-10C more A-10 fun is found in FreeFalcon 5.5.1 wich have a updated A-10 3D cockpit. The graphics is not as good as FC2 but it's a clickable cockpit ;)

(HJ)

The drop is gravity-based ... you'll get a 30' drop for one second's flight.

And however they want to describe it, the FC1 one was a laser, no, really - well, maybe more like blaster bolts ;)

Constant speed rounds with very very little dispersion basically.

The spread is around 20' at 1nm, IIRC (about 6000') and this is linear, so you're looking at 10' spread at 3000'. You aren't going to be seeing anything that looks like a laser beam - it'll look like a very thin funnel.

Funny you use the word 'laser' GGTharos. That is exactly how I've heard it described by publically available written reports from Warthog pilots.

 

The drop is relatively minimal apparently 10 feet at 4000 feet range (2/3 nautical mile), and with a high rate of fire and tracers it would look a bit like a straight beam from the cockpit.

 

Maverick problems are also reported in the following thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=53930