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Is LEX vapour really dynamic with weather parameters at the moment?


Ala12Rv-watermanpc

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Just wonder this because IIRC, Matt stated that the effect was an actual "particles simulation", however, after testing with multitude of different weather settings I haven't managed to find any difference in the effect which leads me to think maybe its not yet a simulation but a scripted effect as it happens exactly at the same flight parameters no matter the weather...

 

also, being a simulation, I guess there should be some randomness on it, which I cant find right now, it behaves the same every time.

 

Another thing I noticed is that there is no any vapour when performing the high AoA pass, which commonly leads to generate some vapour on the lex's (some vapour at least even at low humidity and/or high temp) nor at high speed high g's maneuvers (I know there is where overwing vapour is more common but there is also some in the lex)...

 

So it would be nice to know if the effect is fully working now or not yet as its still a WiP.

 

thanks for the many great things!!!:thumbup:


Edited by watermanpc

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I was about to ask something similar.

Right now, it doesn't seem the effect is dependent on humidity. Also it seems the effect is only triggered by AoA when it falls within a certain range (e.g. from 16 to 40 degrees), it's also not connected to g-force, which seems a bit strange.

 

My question is also regarding high-g wing vapour, I saw it mentioned in the features, but there is no such effect so far. Probably will come later on.

 

WIngtip vortices are also not working, but I think this is an OB issue that's already been reported.

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I was about to ask something similar.

Right now, it doesn't seem the effect is dependent on humidity. Also it seems the effect is only triggered by AoA when it falls within a certain range (e.g. from 16 to 40 degrees), it's also not connected to g-force, which seems a bit strange.

 

My question is also regarding high-g wing vapour, I saw it mentioned in the features, but there is no such effect so far. Probably will come later on.

 

WIngtip vortices are also not working, but I think this is an OB issue that's already been reported.

 

Condensation formed on the surface of the wing at high alpha has no relationship with G-force, other than you are more likely to be pulling some G-force under flight conditions where condensation might be formed. The condensation is exclusively a function of angle of attack and the resulting low pressure areas formed on or near the surface of the wing or fuselage. If the moisture content of the air combined with local temperature are within certain parameters, the air mass will reach it's saturation point and condensation (not vapour) can form, which is what you see. This precisely the same thing which causes condensation which makes the wingtip vortices visible. You'll note that this are often visible during 1G flight regimes.

 

It is not caused by the presence of high load factors, in much the same way that stalling has nothing to do with airspeed - another much misunderstood topic. :book:

 

I haven't yet seen any evidence that this effect is modelled according to wider atmospherics in the sim, but then to be honest, I haven't been paying that much attention to it!


Edited by Chief Instructor

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afaik, in the nevada area, jets almost never get wing vapour at high aoa because the air is too dry or something. but in dcs you can still get it regardless of the map or weather conditions

 

 

either way it looks amazing. way better than it did in the livestream teasers before release

 

Condensation formed on the surface of the wing at high alpha has no relationship with G-force, other than you are more likely to be pulling some G-force under flight conditions where condensation might be formed. The condensation is exclusively a function of angle of attack and the resulting low pressure areas formed on or near the surface of the wing or fuselage. If the moisture content of the air combined with local temperature are within certain parameters, the air mass will reach it's saturation point and condensation (not vapour) can form, which is what you see. This precisely the same thing which causes condensation which makes the wingtip vortices visible. You'll note that this are often visible during 1G flight regimes.

 

It is not caused by the presence of high load factors, in much the same way that stalling has nothing to do with airspeed - another much misunderstood topic. :book:

 

I haven't yet seen any evidence that this effect is modelled according to wider atmospherics in the sim, but then to be honest, I haven't been paying that much attention to it!

 

I think part of that misconception comes from BMS. In that sim, the wing vapour relates exactly with the amount of G you pull, regardless of AOA.


Edited by Sceptre

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afaik, in the nevada area, jets almost never get wing vapour at high aoa because the air is too dry or something. but in dcs you can still get it regardless of the map or weather conditions

 

 

either way it looks amazing. way better than it did in the livestream teasers before release

 

Yes, for visible condensation to form, the air must have a sufficiently high enough moisture content (Relative humidity RH%) to saturate with the available temperature drop caused when its pressure is lowered. The lower the RH% is, the greater the pressure drop required (and therefore temperature drop) for the air to reach its moisture saturation point. As you correctly point out, dry air such as often found in Nevada is less likely to produce the effect, and why IRL we see it more often on colder wet days where the air is less able to hold moisture before it saturates.


Edited by Chief Instructor
fact correction!

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Yep, vapor is not exactly dependent on G, but more so on the local conditions. You can have a level flight and still get lex & wing vapors, although that mainly happens at really humid places (e.g. at sea in the summer) and at relatively high speeds (more than mach ~0.7).

 

Here is a nice read from Wikipedia on this subject.

 

I know the correct term is 'condensation' but I stick with vapor for conciseness.

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Yep, vapor is not exactly dependent on G, but more so on the local conditions. You can have a level flight and still get lex & wing vapors, although that mainly happens at really humid places (e.g. at sea in the summer) and at relatively high speeds (more than mach ~0.7).

 

Here is a nice read from Wikipedia on this subject.

 

I know the correct term is 'condensation' but I stick with vapor for conciseness.

 

If you want to be concise, use the correct terminology! :)

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If you want to be concise, use the correct terminology! :)

 

I'd do that in a more formal setting. For now I assume a reader will implicitly understand 'vapor' as 'vapor condensation' or just 'condensation' :smilewink:.

 

Anyhow, my guess is that ED is still not finished with this. Remember they also promised over-the-wing vapor, and even shockwave cone, so it's all still work in progress.

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I'd do that in a more formal setting. For now I assume a reader will implicitly understand 'vapor' as 'vapor condensation' or just 'condensation' :smilewink:.

 

Anyhow, my guess is that ED is still not finished with this. Remember they also promised over-the-wing vapor, and even shockwave cone, so it's all still work in progress.

 

A overhaul for the weather system also. I think these new effects in conjunction with a better simulation of weather will get DCS more accurate results.

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We are working on a humidity weather element that will be a large factor of vap generation.

 

Great Matt, thanks for the answer :thumbup:

 

Humidity would make a nice difference in weather system, and guess its part of the future new weather system as Texac mentioned before...in the case of the humidity paramenter, and having in mind how nice and VISUALLY variable the vapour condensation is over the fighter aircrafts surfaces I wonder if it could be possible to design this parameter in "pockets" (defined with boxes for instance) so there are different places with slightly different relative humidity and with a smooth and fast transition between each other so as the plane evolves from one to another the changes in the paramenter leads to changes in the vapour...it would feel very dynamic indeed :joystick:

 

Anyway, coming back to the reason of the thread, hope with the inclusion of the new humidity paramenter the simulation of the effect becomes more "elastic" as, right now, it feels a bit too "rigid" (is like "all or nothig" ), I mean, the transition between a slight vapour and full thick vapour is very narrow and Im not sure it's just because of the lack of the humidity parameter...I could be wrong of course.

 

Also, I want to take this opportunity to thank you guys for the effort you all are doing to implement this kind of little BIG things that makes a huge difference in realism and imersion :thumbup:

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