OK Stumped on Reflections/Mapping in Max.

For the F-100D Module, We want to have Silver Polished Liveries.

But no matter what i do to the Specular Layer, I can get the Darn thing to be SHINY.

So I Figure I gotta be doing something wrong in Max.

(as I can save Spec Layers for the P-51D and it shines like a mirror).

It's either a Material Setting or some thing else completely overlooked (ie Xforms or some random lil button).

Here's the Model in EDM Viewer:

Notice, no Reflection, despite having the Specular map with the same colors as I used on the P-51

Now if I choose to reload it appears like this (cept the Bump Map is missing). However it is the BUMP map in Max that is making it Shiney (I can confirm this by disabling the bump map and re-exporting the edm and the shinyness goes away)

Now, If i Replace the Bump Map with the Spec Map, it gets the same result, but the reflection/shineyness is all different shades. Pretty Much the same as Above.

And this is what happens if I switch the bump and Spec Layers in the Desc.lua.

And Here's the layout in Max.

Show us the settings of the specular map slot itself please! Have you tried setting your Basic Parameters specular level to something higher than zero? Have you tried applying this specular map (specifically) to the P-51?

yeah, i put it up to 100-200-300, no change.

This is the Specular Map (cept it's a DDS, i had to change formats to upload)

Changing the P-51 to this map makes the entire thing shiney, regardless of skin.

This is the Specular Map settings in MAX (I think they are left on default, but I havent seen a "Guide/how-to" that says anything about specific settings.

I'm sure I saw Tom from LOF talking about this EXACT issue before- he was talking about why he liked doing the mods for different sims and not DCS- something to do with the layers made it almost impossible to get the polished look. I'll hunt around for it and see if I can link to it.

Going off of your link:

http://s151.beta.photobucket.com/user/Skate-Zilla/media/F-100_spec-silver_zps679e9743.jpg.html

The greener the spec map the duller it gets. Go more for a pink color.

Going off of your link:

http://s151.beta.photobucket.com/user/Skate-Zilla/media/F-100_spec-silver_zps679e9743.jpg.html

 

The greener the spec map the duller it gets. Go more for a pink color.

if this is being used as a multi channel texture, you shouldnt be painting any colour at all. only black and white and the grey in between over the multiple channels. and if its not a multi channel texture i dont tink you should be painting colour. PM sent.i think the prob is knowing how its to be set as multichannel ?

edit: explicit map channel. try change from channel 1 to 3 for reflection based channel,1 for specpower,2 for spec width. and also fill the R &B channels with detail and......this G channel is specular width, NOT specular power. R= spec power. G= spec width, B= reflection power. but i bet you can set thhem as you wish. which leads me to think that the map channel association you have set there might just need changed to 3 as i said earlier. but im theorising here in all honestly with these max settings. im very familiar with how it works, i just dont model or use max directly as a friend does that explicitly. but i learned it for me texturing work. whcih means im probally wrong but ya never know. just trying to help coz i`m crazy about shinny shaders lol :)

I have a Few Ideas, And I'll search around some more.

I know it's a max setting thus far, as I can make any of the newer DCS planes Polished silver looking with photoshop and the spec dds.

I'm in office late tonight, so its prolly about another 10 hours away, im pretty sure since the BUMP map is making the mesh shiney and the spec isnt showing up at all that it maybe a channel setting or material setting in max. I think the channel numbers must match the desc.lua, which might explain why i get odd results when i swap the dds files around, looking at my material settings it seems to have the specular layer in mapping channel 1, so I'll check diffuse and dump channel details, and make sure their channel number matches the DCS Format (0 for Diffuse, 1 for bump, 2 for spec, 4 for decal).

I think my problem is the channels are wrong, and the bump/spec channels are fighting with each other since they are prolly on the same channel.

rgr rgr. tommorow ill get me buddy to fire max up with this ww2 model i have and test it aswell.

edit: what about objects without description.lua ?

changin the material channel didnt work either,

will try and export with Pink Specular

At this point im guessing bump and Specular maps should be the same DDS. since that's teh only way i can get it shiney is by changing the Bump DDS to the specular DDS

What ddoess modelviewer show your channels as? Your screenshots are hard to read. It has to be something simple overlooked.

and the description file?

So far the only way i can get polished metal look is by putting the Specular into the Bump mapping slot. (but then it's inverted some how).

So maybe the bump mapping is wrong?

this is my desc.LUA

livery = {

{"F-100_Body", 0,"F-100_texture-silver.dds", true},

{"F-100_Body", 1,"F-100_bump.dds", true},

{"F-100_Body", 2,"specular.dds", true},

{"F-100_Internal", 0, "F-100_interior.bmp", true},

{"F-100_Pilot", 0,"F-100_jetpilot.bmp", true},

{"F-100_Pilot", 2,"F-100_jetpilot_spec.bmp", true},

{"F-100_Visor", 0,"F-100_visor.bmp", true},

{"F-100_Glass", 0, "F-100_CanopyGlass.tga", true},

{"F-100_Self_Illum", 0, "F-100-AB_Fire.tga", true},

{"F_100_W_Light", 0, "F-100_white_strobe.tga", true},

{"F_100_R_Light", 0, "F-100_red_strobe.tga", true},

{"F_100_G_Light", 0, "F-100_green_strobe.tga", true},

}

name = "USAF Vietnam Silver"

countries = {

"USA",

}

EDMViewer Image attached.

OK, Seems to be related to the BUMP Map,

if i remove the Bump Map from the Desc.lua, I get shiny paint (but that stupid "texture missing overlay")

But If I remove the Bump Map slot from MAX and export EDM without it, the Shiny/Glossy/Mirror Finish in EDM Viewer disapears.

in DCS, the reflection doesnt look anything like the reflection in the EDMViewer.

(looks the same as the stock P-51 though).

Just out of curiosity, does your bump map look kind of like my example below? Given the color of it, it will make the aircraft shiny if put into the specular slot. I'd check your 3ds max settings, just to be sure.

I also use "8.8.8.8 ARGB 32 bpp | unsigned" to save my DDS files.

In the description, I don't use the extention at the end. Maybe it could be causing your errors too? Both are worth a try.

And yes, the reflection in DCS will always be different from ModelViewer. I hope it get's fxed.

i see there being a way to test these issues, ONLY paint in either R, G or B channels. never 2 or 3, just paint in 1 channel. that way you know what channel is doing what exactly and wether its associated correctly.

^My bump looks like that yeah, exported from Photoshop with nVidia DDS exporter. I'll check and see what's up with the BUMP, i dont remember what preset i used in nVidia exporter.

I had completely forgot reflections in EDM viewer dont look exactlythe same inside DCSW. (less detail and more BLUE haze).(ie The P-51 Bare metla is like a friggen Mirror in EDM Viewer, IN DCSW it reflects more blue haze than anything)

I think i changed the Spec to the light Pink color (dont have access to my home PC but will post example later)

And End result was this (Which is alot better than the Milky appearance with a tinsy bit of shine i had before),

Right now this is with a LIGHT PINK Specular Layer, im guessing if I make it Darker/more HOT PINK, it will shine a lil bit more?

its the reflection channel that makes it shine, thats the blue channel on the 51. so if yours is the same it`d the B channel. but i think confusion for you has come round from not having them assicated the same skatezilla, the bump map is again just like a spec map or diffuse (just processed by dds plugins) it simply depends on how much power is used on whatever channel is reflection. if pink makes it more shhinney then try full red texture etc. the percieved information that generates thhat colour is only associated with either R,G or B values, try full red or blue or green. hell try white and test them all. thats full red, green and blue after all.

^My bump looks like that yeah, exported from Photoshop with nVidia DDS exporter. I'll check and see what's up with the BUMP, i dont remember what preset i used in nVidia exporter.

 

I had completely forgot reflections in EDM viewer dont look exactlythe same inside DCSW. (less detail and more BLUE haze).(ie The P-51 Bare metla is like a friggen Mirror in EDM Viewer, IN DCSW it reflects more blue haze than anything)

 

I think i changed the Spec to the light Pink color (dont have access to my home PC but will post example later)

 

And End result was this (Which is alot better than the Milky appearance with a tinsy bit of shine i had before),

 

Right now this is with a LIGHT PINK Specular Layer, im guessing if I make it Darker/more HOT PINK, it will shine a lil bit more?

 

I'll definitely see what full red and full blue do tonight and make sure DDS Exporter maintains RGB Values.

Will also make sure Max has RGB Values for the sub materials.

I like what I have now, but It needs more reflection and maybe a tad more specular.

I'll also Look at the Spec Maps for the P-51 by Channel instead of just opening it and looking at the main appearance..

I think R is Specular and B is Reflection as you said.

Going off of your link:

http://s151.beta.photobucket.com/user/Skate-Zilla/media/F-100_spec-silver_zps679e9743.jpg.html

The greener the spec map the duller it gets. Go more for a pink color.

See my thread here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=88855

I've gotten better at understanding spec materials since I made the post. DGambo nailed it in his post. Adjusting the RGB channels will get you better results.

My spec layers is a greyish-pink actually to achieve this:

your post explained a lot,

as did this one:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1464544&postcount=3

looks like i have more experimenting to do tonite.

Dunno where this thread was a few months ago, i know I search and search for specular stuff...

haha, Almost a year ago that was made. I sworn I tagged it too.

haha, Almost a year ago that was made. I sworn I tagged it too.

Definitely needs to be sticky

 

I've gotten better at understanding spec materials since I made the post. DGambo nailed it in his post. Adjusting the RGB channels will get you better results.

And if you paint them individually you get much much MUCH better results, not doing so is misunderstanding the three files completely ! FACT. Editing them all together at once, for e.axmple colour editing is not an option here folks.

BTW: contained within the p51 template is an explanation of how DGambo has made his files independantly of each other via monochrome editing and using assetts independant to the diffuse layers, please have a look and consider what i will now state in my next 2 posts.

-------------

i know its of no consequence to anyone really but referring to this file as 1 and associating the colour as 1 overall colour isnt really whats happening, and its leading most astray with true understanding about how to work these files.

Robo`s link you posted there isnt the correct way to assume understanding of this file. but his later posts on that page are more accurate.

-------------

this is how i assume it. and as far as i can see its not done any harm to my artwork all my rep there comes from whhat i made, asides that people seem to not like me much. anyway.. on with my understanding and explanations.

It`s just a visual bi-product of the 3 channels just coincidentaly stored in a conveniant container file which happens to be a graphics file. this file uttilising 3 channels in this case.

your playing with or using 3 independant monochromatic channels individually to create this method that the sim uses for presenting 3 independant graphical effects, those being. specular sunshine power, specular width of sunshine power and reflection power.

consider them individually and wonders will happen artisticly. just like creating an alpha channel so to speak. except youve got 3 of them in the 1 rgb file(TYPE), a dds file. (it could be any rgb based file in theory or how about a 5 channel CMYK & alpha!) you could have upto 4 in some cases for RGB type (inc ALPHA).

you are likely confusing things by trying to associate yourself with this file by reading its colour. there is ZERO colour that works in this file, colour is not an aspect within this files operation. 3x B&W files is precise stored together is precise by means of conveniance.

once you get this solidly in your minds you`ll knock out beautifull shiny skins like i did last august. the reason why, is because youll be designing them independantly in black and white, and not editing 3 seperate texture together as 1 by making adding or manipulating any colour at all. FACT!

also this is basicly a tutorial for just exactly how to percieve this file.

so come on and beat me at my own game purrrrrrrrrrlease ! Rock is getting close. i hope if he heeds this he brings out some super skins, blaze too ! come on gents ! and well Rudel i think should be producing a whole new template for folks to skin with i hope. i cant do this anymore it drives me into a nutter because of how i do it and percieve it.

i employ pixel art techniques whichh equates to absolute control of every single pixel on the canvas. it gaines higher fidelity over and above any photosop procedure, for example i personally anti alias any pixels i need to which involves extensive understanding of colours and for a scratch i consider how many pixels a metallic scratch requires at this scale etc. also the normal map is pixelart too. and it is the primary effect that allows the spec and reflect to work well in conjunction with itself.

learn pixel art, its insane but its true understanding regards the way of the pixel lol. and te only route to getting the most out of your shaders IMHO. hoever it takes your mind into very deep tunnel like realms trying to manage 2048x 2048 texture, lets alone another 4 because of the shaders, doing that all at the same time becomes fanatical and insane at times, its caused me to loose alot of people i wanted to be friendly with around here. so to you lot that involved yourselves with me about all this specular work, im trully sorry.

graphics for 1.2.0/1 except first image, thats 1.2.2, something still not right with 1.2.3 shader base for p51 imho.

Ali Fish I thought the last three pics were real at first. lol