Case I Speed Management in Break/Downwind

I’m wondering if anyone has any tips to get on speed quicker in the case I pattern.

I fly the break at 350 kts/800 ft breaking at 1.0 NM DME. I pull just a bit under 1% G’s, finding this puts me from 0.1-0.2 NM off the starboard side at the break to 1.1-1.2 NM on downwind. Pull straight 1% G would bleed a bit more speed, but I end up to close abeam. I drop the gear at 240 kts for drag and have messed with flaps to full at 210 kts and fight the nose up or to full at 180 kts and trim.

I find doing all this I’m at 600’ seeing the rundown at about 145kts. Almost on speed, but it’s already time to turn if I’m going to hit my groove time. But I haven’t been able to fine tune my trim at all. I have it pretty patterned that it’s a “3 second count” of up trim to on speed trim. But this isn’t perfect and needs a little fine tuning. This leaves me still tuning trim in the base turn.

So any thoughts on how to slow down quicker? Is there much consideration for speedbrake usage in the break in real life?

I know I can break past one mile, but if you’re a flight of four coming out of the stack, someone has to break early to get everyone r in the pattern with 4 NM. I’m trying to polish it up so I can be adept at the shorter.

You can use the speedbrake.

You _should_ use the speedbrake.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

So in real world flying, is it customary to pop the speedbrake entering the break, or as needed based on judgement?

I feel I could be pretty well on speed just using the speedbrake the last 45-90 degrees of the break, and not even fully deployed.

You’ll get different answers from different guys. I was taught to use the speedbrake in the break. Many of my peers did the same.

Be aware, the speed Brake will retract by itself as soon as you put the gear down.

Second that, speedbrake. Drop flaps/gear at 250kts while being in the turn, you won't get any "ballooning"/nose up that way.

I usually break between 0.7/0.8 miles, speedbrake and 1% G turn, by the time I come out of turn I am usually trimmed and on speed.

Be aware, the speed Brake will retract by itself as soon as you put the gear down.

Not exactly.

The Speed Brakes stay out when you only put the gear down !

But they retract themselves when you drop the flaps (either in Half or Full position), no matter the position of the landing gear !

I put the flap selector in the full down position while lining up for the initial at 350 kts. The flaps remain up until after the brake when I extend the speed brake and then the gear at 250. The flaps come down and I am trimmed up on speed by just before the round down and the speed brake retracts itself.

I put the flap selector in the full down position while lining up for the initial at 350 kts. The flaps remain up until after the brake when I extend the speed brake and then the gear at 250. The flaps come down and I am trimmed up on speed by just before the round down and the speed brake retracts itself.

You are free to do that in DCS. In theory, that may work in the real world. However, if you are interested in realism, nobody ever does that in the actual hornet. Once below 250, select gear down and flaps full. Nobody ever prestages the flaps switch. Of course, you may do as you wish. I don’t know if you are one of the guys that pursues super realism in the way you do things.

Understand, intentionally configuring in an overspeed condition is considered taboo.

You are free to do that in DCS. In theory, that may work in the real world. However, if you are interested in realism, nobody ever does that in the actual hornet. Once below 250, select gear down and flaps full. Nobody ever prestages the flaps switch. Of course, you may do as you wish. I don’t know if you are one of the guys that pursues super realism in the way you do things.

Funny you should say that. This is what a Hornet driver told us they do on a regular basis. He indicated that it was a normal practice. I have enough experience in aviation to know that for just about every operation in an aircraft, there are many, many ways to accomplish them and invariably, most folks feel that their way is the only way! :smilewink:

I don’t know if you are one of the guys that pursues super realism in the way you do things.

That was a cheap shot and unnecessary. Razor is a RW pilot and doesn't count rivets to ensure realism in DCS. The original poster asked a question and he responded.

Funny you should say that. This is what a Hornet driver told us they do on a regular basis. He indicated that it was a normal practice. I have enough experience in aviation to know that for just about every operation in an aircraft, there are many, many ways to accomplish them and invariably, most folks feel that their way is the only way! :smilewink:

.... you would unsat a NATOPS check doing anything like this. It is not simply a way to accomplish the same thing, it is literally against what is known as "procedures ".

But as GB explained, if your not worried about "realism ", one can obviously do what they wish in the game and disregard his point on what is procedurally correct.

That was a cheap shot and unnecessary. Razor is a RW pilot and doesn't count rivets to ensure realism in DCS. The original poster asked a question and he responded.

He is simply trying to articulate that he understands there are those that implement a level of realism not necessarily needed for this game. For which what he is discussing would then apply. Otherwise, it's a game and you can do what you like.

All is good, dont read into it. :)

I always try to perform a 'military landing', whether an adjusted F18 one for practice like this:

takeoff from deck

flapsUp GearUp

180°

@600ft@~250-300kts

reaching abeam gearDWN

hard bank base into final

brake by pitching

Flaps Full are down @ 90°

estimate/calculate ‘on speed’ by examining trimming bracket

past 45° final be at 170kts, cut throttle

level off @320-350ft 'on speed' short final @132-135kts, on the ILS if On

catch 3 wire

Or,

the documented actual one (flown in F14 by flight leader only, but here in F18C)

5NM@5000ft@550-650kts@30°CW left of ship heading 30° of Stennis sails N

fast speed decent 'to the LSO position' @600-1000ft, @580-650kts

over the LSO hard left bank

pull as much G's as 1% of speed (650 slowing down to ~350kts)

end up 30° wide (250°, if Stennis heading N)@~1.5/2nm TCN

never level off in the whole pattern

speedbreak only if miscalculated, you should do without

@~350kts abeam (still wide) start the measured circling with less bank, into to final

lower gear@280kts

1st flaps passing 220kts full flaps passing 185kts

passing 90°-45° 'trim on speed' bracket

catch 3 wire

(Dotted down by memory, not tested line-by-line)

Not mentioned in NATOPS

NATOPS is for pussies.

I always try to perform a 'military landing', whether an adjusted F18 one for practice like this:

 

takeoff from deck

flapsUp GearUp

180°

@600ft@~250-300kts

reaching abeam gearDWN

hard bank base into final

brake by pitching

Flaps Full are down @ 90°

estimate/calculate ‘on speed’ by examining trimming bracket

past 45° final be at 170kts, cut throttle

level off @320-350ft 'on speed' short final @132-135kts, on the ILS if On

catch 3 wire

 

Or,

 

the documented actual one (flown in F14 by flight leader only, but here in F18C)

 

5NM@5000ft@550-650kts@30°CW left of ship heading 30° of Stennis sails N

fast speed decent 'to the LSO position' @600-1000ft, @580-650kts

over the LSO hard left bank

pull as much G's as 1% of speed (650 slowing down to ~350kts)

end up 30° wide (250°, if Stennis heading N)@~1.5/2nm TCN

never level off in the whole pattern

speedbreak only if miscalculated, you should do without

@~350kts abeam (still wide) start the measured circling with less bank, into to final

lower gear@280kts

1st flaps passing 220kts full flaps passing 185kts

passing 90°-45° 'trim on speed' bracket

catch 3 wire

 

(Dotted down by memory, not tested line-by-line)

 

Not mentioned in NATOPS

 

NATOPS is for pussies.

Sorry mate it is a bit hard to take you seriously when you make statements like "NATOPS is for pussies" then in another thread on here you are asking whether the military use NOTAMs. Maybe just keep your opinions to yourself if you have no idea what you are talking about.

Funny you should say that. This is what a Hornet driver told us they do on a regular basis. He indicated that it was a normal practice. I have enough experience in aviation to know that for just about every operation in an aircraft, there are many, many ways to accomplish them and invariably, most folks feel that their way is the only way! :smilewink:

Razor, sure as hell wasn't me telling you we overspeed reguarlly, dunno which hornet pilot you talked to. -Jar

Send him to this thread and we can sniff out if he's legit.

I always try to perform a 'military landing', whether an adjusted F18 one for practice like this:

 

takeoff from deck

flapsUp GearUp

180°

@600ft@~250-300kts

reaching abeam gearDWN

hard bank base into final

brake by pitching

Flaps Full are down @ 90°

estimate/calculate ‘on speed’ by examining trimming bracket

past 45° final be at 170kts, cut throttle

level off @320-350ft 'on speed' short final @132-135kts, on the ILS if On

catch 3 wire

 

Or,

 

the documented actual one (flown in F14 by flight leader only, but here in F18C)

 

5NM@5000ft@550-650kts@30°CW left of ship heading 30° of Stennis sails N

fast speed decent 'to the LSO position' @600-1000ft, @580-650kts

over the LSO hard left bank

pull as much G's as 1% of speed (650 slowing down to ~350kts)

end up 30° wide (250°, if Stennis heading N)@~1.5/2nm TCN

never level off in the whole pattern

speedbreak only if miscalculated, you should do without

@~350kts abeam (still wide) start the measured circling with less bank, into to final

lower gear@280kts

1st flaps passing 220kts full flaps passing 185kts

passing 90°-45° 'trim on speed' bracket

catch 3 wire

 

(Dotted down by memory, not tested line-by-line)

 

Not mentioned in NATOPS

 

NATOPS is for pussies.

Come again? Definitely not case I pattern and I'm not sure "military landing" is even a term with any meaning.

Razor, sure as hell wasn't me telling you we overspeed reguarlly, dunno which hornet pilot you talked to. -Jar

 

Send him to this thread and we can sniff out if he's legit.

No, it wasn't you Jar. No worries guys, it's all good. :pilotfly:

That was a cheap shot and unnecessary. Razor is a RW pilot and doesn't count rivets to ensure realism in DCS. The original poster asked a question and he responded.

As Lex said, don’t read into it. Text format of communication leaves room for misinterpretation. Was not meant as a cheap shot or that anyone is doing anything wrong. Just acknowledging that some guys pursue realism, some guys don’t, and I don’t know who’s who. And if that he was pursuing realism, he should not set the flap switch in the overspeed condition. I am not one to attack people, especially over a game. My apologies for giving the opposite impression.

Funny you should say that. This is what a Hornet driver told us they do on a regular basis. He indicated that it was a normal practice. I have enough experience in aviation to know that for just about every operation in an aircraft, there are many, many ways to accomplish them and invariably, most folks feel that their way is the only way! :smilewink:

If you were told this by a real hornet driver, then he is an exception. That is definitely not a regular practice.

I took no offense GB :thumbup:

Come again? Definitely not case I pattern and I'm not sure "military landing" is even a term with any meaning.

Nope its not a Case I landing,

it's the renowned

"It’s a Navy thing. More, it’s a CV thing, ‘CV’ being the code for carrier, the kind of carrier that has cross-deck pendants and planes with hooks. The Sh!t Hot Break: if you know what it is, you’re smiling already."

" ..

Nasty perfected the SHB. Distilled it and repeated it with maddening regularity.

His signature maneuver was to approach the Boat at 600 knots and 600 feet. Not all that unusual in and of itself, but Nasty would bring his section of F-14s in 30 degrees inside the wake so that he would have more than 180 degrees to slow down... "

dumb ass ignoramus.

Oh yeah, the good ol' "military landing". I'll grab some pop corn