Looking to buy new HOTAS...

How much more control do the better sticks actually give over using something like the Saitek X52 Pro when for example; maneuvering into position for mid-air tanking, formation flying or landing?

Never owned a Saitek, but used a full CH setup until recently and now use a VPC joystick and throttle. The simple answer is that at least for me, the VPC gear is a lot more precise and easy to modulate smoothly. I certainly think that refuelling and say carrier landing is definitely easier. They’re also added a bunch of HOTAS buttons and axes that I’m finding very useful.

Sure, it’s not cheap, but feels like it will last forever. I’ve read of many failiures on Saitek and to a degree Warthogs. Do you go cheap now, but need to replace it in 3-4 years, or do it right first time?

Never owned a Saitek, but used a full CH setup until recently and now use a VPC joystick and throttle. The simple answer is that at least for me, the VPC gear is a lot more precise and easy to modulate smoothly. I certainly think that refuelling and say carrier landing is definitely easier. They’re also added a bunch of HOTAS buttons and axes that I’m finding very useful.

 

Sure, it’s not cheap, but feels like it will last forever. I’ve read of many failiures on Saitek and to a degree Warthogs. Do you go cheap now, but need to replace it in 3-4 years, or do it right first time?

Thanks for your good points. I have also tried foot pedals but never got comfortable with them. Firstly I find they move all over even on a carpet, secondly using wrist twist rudder/NSW gives me better control than the pedals did. Again that may be a quality issue.

Also upgraded from CH and and the difference was honestly a bit staggering.

Contactless sensors aren't really the biggest difference it also relies heavily on the mechanics involved as well.

One major feature for these are also the customisation you can achieve, hard center, soft center, no center ?

All quite easily configured by chosing a set of cam's.

And combine that with switching out some springs you can get them just perfect to how you like it.

Also the on center performance on my virpil is staggering.

No deadzone, no curves needed.

Yeah, getting pedals stationary is a must, they would be utterly unusable if they keep moving under your feet.

They either need to be fixed to something or pushing against something.

Also upgraded from CH and and the difference was honestly a bit staggering.

Contactless sensors aren't really the biggest difference it also relies heavily on the mechanics involved as well.

 

One major feature for these are also the customisation you can achieve, hard center, soft center, no center ?

All quite easily configured by chosing a set of cam's.

And combine that with switching out some springs you can get them just perfect to how you like it.

 

Also the on center performance on my virpil is staggering.

No deadzone, no curves needed.

 

Yeah, getting pedals stationary is a must, they would be utterly unusable if they keep moving under your feet.

They either need to be fixed to something or pushing against something.

Crosswind pedals seem to be the choice with no competition.

I haven't heard a bad word about the Virpil so for desktop which would be my selection?

Can you buy a package with throttles/joystick or does the base always come separate?

Crosswind pedals seem to be the choice with no competition.

I haven't heard a bad word about the Virpil so for desktop which would be my selection?

Can you buy a package with throttles/joystick or does the base always come separate?

 

 

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For desktop would be the Virpil WarBRD for stick.

Then whichever throttle you would want to get - Virpil, Warthog, or whatever.

WarBRD base is designed for desktop use.

But WarBRD+T50 grip may result a bit tall for this use.

Could be said that T50 grip height is similar to Warthog grip plus 50mm extension.

WarBRD base is designed for desktop use.

But WarBRD+T50 grip may result a bit tall for this use.

Could be said that T50 grip height is similar to Warthog grip plus 50mm extension.

That's a good point as I thought the Warthog might be too high for desktop use. Is there a specification sheet that shows the dimensions for the Virpil hardware?

Well they sure market it as a desktop stick.

Can always raise my seat another couple of inches.

Well they sure market it as a desktop stick.

I know there is no twist for the rudder of the TW or Virpil however is there a controller on the stick that you think could function as a rudder controller?

The TW stick height is 11-1/8".

For desktop would be the Virpil WarBRD for stick.

Then whichever throttle you would want to get - Virpil, Warthog, or whatever.

The WarBRD is for the base, is there a plate it attaches to for the desk so it's stable if you don't want to install table edge clamps? Is the best grip to get the MongoosT-50?

I know there is no twist for the rudder of the TW or Virpil however is there a controller on the stick that you think could function as a rudder controller?

 

 

The TW stick height is 11-1/8".

All those buttons, hats and levers on the stick are ill suited for rudder control. If you stay with jets, you can get away with mapping rudder left/right to buttons or use the keyboard, props and helos require analogue rudders though.

Virpil offers a grip with twist rudder: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-constellation-delta-grip.html

Crosswind pedals seem to be the choice with no competition.

 

 

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I wouldn't say so. I replaced my Crosswinds with the Thrustmaster TPRs and like the TM rudders much better than the Crosswinds.

I wouldn't say so. I replaced my Crosswinds with the Thrustmaster TPRs and like the TM rudders much better than the Crosswinds.

Yeah but they are also nearly twice the price.

Was price an issue? In that case, the Crosswinds offer a fantastic price/value ratio.

All those buttons, hats and levers on the stick are ill suited for rudder control. If you stay with jets, you can get away with mapping rudder left/right to buttons or use the keyboard, props and helos require analogue rudders though.

 

 

Virpil offers a grip with twist rudder: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-constellation-delta-grip.html

I think there may be too much to give up going with the constellation-delta grip over the Mongoos T-50 for the sake of stick rudder control.

When you speak of analogue rudder, I take it the alternative is digital rudder. How do the 2 differences translate into user control and the actual hardware?

I had rudder pedals, they slid all over the carpet. Do the better ones mentioned have enough weight to keep them from moving or do they all need to be screwed into the floor?

I oddly enough find the delta grip better for jets than I do for elite dangerous.

Elite dangerous combat tends to make you push a lot of buttons at the same time and the delta stick moves pretty much all buttons under your thumb.

And I found the thumb stick more useful for slew than thruster control.

So yeah.

I prefer the delta constellation for DCS, and mongoose for elite dangerous.

Honestly not by much so I in general just prefer the mongoose, the pinky button, foldable trigger and 2-way on the side is great for both and I was missing those.

Then again I also don't need twist.

Both seem like very good quality grips.

I could be very happy with just the delta, but since I own both I choose the mongoose for personal preferences.

I find myself curious about the MCG pro...

I oddly enough find the delta grip better for jets than I do for elite dangerous.

 

Elite dangerous combat tends to make you push a lot of buttons at the same time and the delta stick moves pretty much all buttons under your thumb.

And I found the thumb stick more useful for slew than thruster control.

 

So yeah.

 

I prefer the delta constellation for DCS, and mongoose for elite dangerous.

Honestly not by much so I in general just prefer the mongoose, the pinky button, foldable trigger and 2-way on the side is great for both and I was missing those.

Then again I also don't need twist.

 

Both seem like very good quality grips.

I could be very happy with just the delta, but since I own both I choose the mongoose for personal preferences.

 

I find myself curious about the MCG pro...

To clarify; analogue controller would be a slider or any axis? and digital controller would be buttons?

An analog control is an axis - that can be in format of slider, rotaries, lever, or X,Y stick.

If programmed in controller firmware an axis can be controlled even by buttons, e.g. POV HAT* is an axis but programmed for fixed values based on buttons press.

*Windows support 2 or 4 POV HAT's, but most sticks and games are not programmed for use more than one.

Ordinary joysticks buttons are digital controls (on or off).

To clarify; analogue controller would be a slider or any axis? and digital controller would be buttons?

In a nutshell yes.

But strictly speaking all controllers these days are digital.

Buttons are on-off states.

An analog axis, has a range of states, for an 8 bit joystick for instance it is a range from 0-255.

Say you have a throttle input just a standard 8bit one would be able to increment and control it at less than 0.5 percent adjustment.

Now it's becoming more and more affordable to use 12bit chips and these range from 0-4096 .

A button for rudder would then be either 0 or 100%.

And often for rudders you don't need full. But 10-20% and it could change often so having an analog input for this is great.

Personally I wouldn't sacrifice my rudder pedals for anything, my wrist is busy enough with pitch and roll.

Most games would give you some help though when using buttons.

As in rudder it could increase the output by X percent as you held the button. And reaching 100% would mean holding the button for some time.

Thanks to both of you for this info, I get the idea now. I believe the good HOTAS like Virpil are 16 bit or 32?

Bob_Bushman does your Crosswind pedals require anchoring to keep them from moving around?

Thanks to both of you for this info, I get the idea now. I believe the good HOTAS like Virpil are 16 bit or 32?

 

 

Bob_Bushman does your Crosswind pedals require anchoring to keep them from moving around?

They are just flush against a wall.

They have a pair of prongs that create a few inches distance, no issue with cables etc.

Since I'm using an office chair though, for now, I tied two hooks to my armrests with some rope.

That I attach to the cat's eye hooks on the mounts.

Here's a quick pic of my setup back when I was running the delta grip, but after I got the throttle.

They are just flush against a wall.

They have a pair of prongs that create a few inches distance, no issue with cables etc.

Since I'm using an office chair though, for now, I tied two hooks to my armrests with some rope.

That I attach to the cat's eye hooks on the mounts.

 

Here's a quick pic of my setup back when I was running the delta grip, but after I got the throttle.

Great setup...thanks for sharing! Do you keep your feet on the pedals the entire time you are flying?

Did you buy a base plate from the manuf. to screw onto your stick base and then screw into the wood table?

Great setup...thanks for sharing!

Did you buy a base plate from the manuf. to screw onto your stick base and then screw into the wood table?

Nope, just got some longer m3 screws and drilled 3mm holes :P

Goes right through the board, the plate and into the case.

Not recommended I'm sure but, been working fine, and besides I got my stick setup light so there isn't any actual force involved.

Think I spent about a total of $30 on it, and 90% of the wood is re purposed from my old setup.

The TW stick height is 11-1/8".

An VirPil base don't change much this picture:

From VirPil blog.

Thanks to both of you for this info, I get the idea now. I believe the good HOTAS like Virpil are 16 bit or 32?

Nominally is 16 bits, but in practice - joystick angle movement is less, but more than your hands can control. :)

https://virpil.com/en/blog/45-mongoost-50-electronics