Seeking best connection method for optimal multi-monitor-performance

Hopefully we'll be able to extract gauges from DCS like I can in BMS

You can extract all the information of the gauges from DCS like from BMS and feed them real-time into Helios. I have a Helios profile for both though I don't really fly BMS (as much as I like the tech detail, I need healthy eyes for my job :) )

These gauges all work realtime:

 

 

 

Keep in mind that slower graphic card might slow the whole thing down especially when you use them for for main screens too.

softTh helps you getting the most out of those situations as Peter made me learn.

He was a great help to me when setting up the graphic part!

 

Video memory is also one of your best friends!

I got a card with 4GB for example.

Buying 2x 2GB will still use 2GB effectively.

Same with dual GPU cards like the gtx 690 bc when it says they have 4gb its actually 2x2GB inside (2 for each GPU inside)

 

For example running the full set pretty high settings and with Helios etc. brings my video memory to ~3,6GB so my fps don't bottleneck here and I am closer to the same setting as single monitor users while enjoying almost same frame rates.

 

@MetalNwood:

I can only say don't go horizontal with 3 screens with today's performance.

As said before maybe someday you can run a post-distortion correction without significant performance loss. Not yet really.

 

1. Also no trackIR means you look at super stretched distortion AND can't zoom in when you turn you head bc it will obviously still zoom to center.

 

2.With trackIR on my setup TIR loses me even when turning my head that far and also then you don't need that head turn if TIR does it for you.

 

3.Distortion is better when using 3 cameras in the monitor lua but then you can't zoom or use trackIR without going ugly.

 

The portrait mode has a great advantage bc its closer to the aspect of one big screen and your appropriate FOV wont have that much distortion nor do you have to manually adjust luas to bring back the visibility ranges (which doesn't even work completely with lua modding but most of it)

 

I plan to go for PeterP's suggestion, but to hold 55" screen vertically I have to build a new construction which I will have to develop or just build on the fly over some bottles of Vodka like most of the cockpit :)

 

First I finish the panels and hull though

The portrait mode has a great advantage bc its closer to the aspect of one big screen and your appropriate FOV wont have that much distortion nor do you have to manually adjust luas to bring back the visibility ranges (which doesn't even work completely with lua modding but most of it)

 

I plan to go for PeterP's suggestion, but to hold 55" screen vertically I have to build a new construction which I will have to develop or just build on the fly over some bottles of Vodka like most of the cockpit :)

 

First I finish the panels and hull though

 

Keep in mind than once you are finished with your construction that we can use this "unused" space that I marked with red to get the different avionics exports on your other screens via SoftTH.

This by using the "Black" view-port trick: #12

 

 

 

this is 1920x820 - sure:it will not be "HD" - but much more than we need for readable gauges and MFCDs and radio exports.

 

The great advantage is that you can still stay with a total 4080x1920 in-game render while spreading the "avionics info" at the other screens.

 

 

Just make sure that your HUD is readable - if not: How To :HUD Export A10C DCS-World for Real HUD

 

So you build a real HUD and just make your Track-IR deadzone great enough - so it will always match your HUD -view again when looking straight.

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

Keep in mind than once you are finished with your construction that we can use this "unused" space that I marked with red to get the different avionics exports on your other screens via SoftTH.

This by using the "Black" view-port trick: #12

 

Yeah I have that in mind all the time...painfully...and I think I will still go for 1200 on that front panel instead of 840. My camera view and exports are covered with the 840 but my "DCS options resolution" and softTH resolution will have to have some empty space below the vertical ones.

 

The overall resolution has to stay 1200 in height on that front panel bc to fit the MFCDs into the panel on that resolution makes them already only 420x420 with is just what I can live with.

 

But on a second thought that might be just what you mean anyways :)

 

Just make sure that your HUD is readable

 

Why wouldn't it be? its still on the HD screen.

But I do consider building one at a later point and had your thread about that already bookmarked.

I also have this book here which gives some great inspirations also to get rid of the visual "close distance" as you have it when using one single reflection.

http://www.mikesflightdeck.com/mfdb/bsds/bsds.html

 

But one thing at a time :)

wrong! - (I see that you still didn't realised what a powerful tool SoftTH is...)

...you forgot that we are able to squish and squeeze every output like we want via SoftTH using the "destRect" function and even to "teleport " portions of the DCS in-game render to other screens.

 

- so 1920x820 is more than enough for your purpose.

 

short: we are able to spread this 1920x820 on 1920x1200.

so there is no boarder or anything uncovered.

 

...This barriers are only existing in your head ;)...

 

seems you want to read again this thread: SoftTH NEWS

 

 

 

...remember the days when we played on 480x320 and we still where able to read everything?!

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

Is SofTH a must for FC2/DCS?

No- it is not a "must"...- you can run everything "windowed"...

 

SoftTH is a helper when you use a multi-monitors setup of not matching screens that are not able to be unified in a AMD"Eyefinity"/NVidia"Surround" group - but you still want to use full-screen because of the better performance.

 

Soviet, please have also a read here again: SoftTH NEWS - I don't write this all up because I'm so eager of posting stuff and /or watching my post-count go high... well... at last I hope that this knowledge will be spread among others.

 

Edit:

Sometimes I really start to feel silly when I have to repeat the same on and on again... and all in a single thread...:P.... (if you don't belive me - look up my postings..., See?!)

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

wrong! - (I see that you still didn't realised what a powerful tool SoftTH is...)

...you forgot that we are able to squish and squeeze every output like we want via SoftTH using the "destRect" function and even to "teleport " portions of the DCS in-game render to other screens.

 

- so 1920x820 is more than enough for your purpose.

 

short: we are able to spread this 1920x820 on 1920x1200.

so there is no boarder or anything uncovered.

 

...This barriers are only existing in your head ;)...

 

seems you want to read again this thread: SoftTH NEWS

 

 

 

...remember the days when we played on 480x320 and we still where able to read everything?!

 

You are right on that particular point.

I thought the softTH render surface has to include all used monitors completely without getting stretching.

Actually I understood it right but testing wasn't successful so I thought I misunderstood :)

(remember at the beginning of this post when I wrote you the pm about being too enthusiastic with some test resolutions so I reedited the post? Those layouts I deleted were of that kind!)

 

Glad I was wrong on being wrong, hehe.

 

That does change everything again, thanks!

_____________________________________________________

 

Is SofTH a must for FC2/DCS?

as soon as you export displays to another monitor/use more than one monitor/have to run window mode for any reason ... I say YES its a must!

Or you waste tons of performance and fps

And that's just ONE common argument for softTH.

Lets just pray that there will be a dx11 version until Nevada comes out.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

EDIT:

Sometimes I really start to feel silly when I have to repeat the same on and on again... and all in a single thread....... (if you don't belive me - look up my postings..., See?!)

There is still a difference if people don't get or misunderstand things or are just too lazy to search.

Like opening the 20th thread about "where can I download DCSW" and "do I have to de-install DCSA10c 1111" etc.

In this case it might be last one :)

Edited July 13, 2012 by Weltensegler

Weltensegler, you are right that the distortion is awful.

 

A long time ago I changed my center view so it only stretches across the center monitor and about 1/3rd of the side monitors. This is enough to give you the feeling of being immersed while not giving enough distortion so that you can actually look at that 1/3rd of the screen.

 

With TIR I find you dont normally look any wider even if I was rendering on the whole side monitor.

 

I am going to give it a try in portrait-landscape-portrait with the black space. That will be enough to put all my exports including the CDU export.

 

The main issue will be supporting the monitors on their sides for the purposes of trying it out.

You are right metalnwood ,...

...when you have a view "without" distortion and a much better look-down capability like I have pictured - you never look back again to use a 16:3 ratio.

 

2:1 is just so much more pleasing to your Eyes - at it comes much more natural to have a look through a window - have a look again at the videos that I posted for soviet in his thread GTX 670 for Triple Monitors :

 

I use this 2:1 ratio myself on a setting of 3840x1780 including a touch-screen - and I will never go back to a 16:3 setting.

.:)

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

Well, I am around my pit trying to figure it out.

 

I will do the softh changes largely based on newys to get me started. Once I see it working I will figure out how to change my monitor orientation. It will really require a complete set of new mounting which I wasnt planning on doing for a few weeks when my replacement CNC arrives. In the meantime ti will be more difficult but I will see how I can do it.

 

A 42" screen on it's side looks very, very tall! Also it is wider than the 1/3 view I currently use so in fact with this set up I will have more visible area with less distortion. Can't be bad!

 

My only thought is that it might be a good ide to raise the overall height of all of my monitors. Not by a lot but it makes me think if it will raise the cockpit view too high? I am not sure there is a way to change the view as the viewdx setting in the monitor config is only for head pitch.

 

Anyway, off to get softh and start trying things.

I am not sure there is a way to change the view as the viewdx setting in the monitor config is only for head pitch.

 

change cockpit center view: (Ben There, Dan That!)

 

>>>Fix for misplaced/stretched MP and Mission Gui - also for BS

 

 

 

>>> Tweaked Cockpit view for DCS A-10C

 

BTW: it is advisable to tweak the view via the SnapViewsDefault.lua as altering the view viewDy in the "MonitorSetup".lua will create a bug:

>>> Shallow water doesn't match with coastline

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

Aha, ytrans. That should do it for me!

 

The configs for softh look ok and the destrec is fairly straightforward to understand but I am unsure how I should have my monitors set up in windows.

 

Right now they are as is shown in the screenshot. A 3x1 eyefinity + two extended desktops, one for helios and the smaller for the CDU.

 

It sounds like I should try and run this all as fullscreen for max FPS as I can keep helios working this way too.

 

So, it looks like I need to ditch my eyefinity group and set them up as PLP in windows, right? I wish the ati drivers were not so fickle when playing with my eyefinity groups!

metalnwood,

seems you have a good start!

Just keep in mind that the "SoftTH Configuration tool" has also its limits. -and some things - like "teleporting" portions via the "destRect" function can be only done via a manual file edit.

 

Happy tweaking!

 

Edit: please re-read post #36 -I have added Info about tweaking the "viewDy" and a bug.

 

Over and out for today!

Edited July 13, 2012 by PeterP

Yep, got it working PLP without eyefinity and softth. Time to see if I can turn on softth and get it going and add the exports etc.

OK, I made some progress when I had time during the day.

 

It is now running in full screen mode in PLP. I have a total windows desktop area of 6184x1920 but I have configured softth to only work with a render area of 4264. Same with DCS, its set at 4264x1920.

 

SoftTH is configured to pull out some renders from that area and put them on the other two monitors which were not included in DCS's render area.

 

 

 

 

I set up mu monitor lua like this

 

 

 

 

I removed the exports from the lua for clarity. I havent set them in the right position yet anyway.

 

I put together a quick youtube vid showing it but its still uploading. I added bezel management which was easy and softth is good so far as my rigged up monitor stands could not get the side lined up at the same height as the center monitor. Softth had an easy answer to make the graphics line up at least.

 

It seems a bit strange using it as it is quite different. The side monitors are probably 250mm lower than my knees so you do get a good view right outside the cockpit. All that extra Vert space also adds to takeoffs, landings and low flying.

 

My only issue at this point is what happens with nevada? DX11, will it work with softth? It would be some effort to make a set of proper mounts for the screens to find out shortly that it is not usable in DX11 land.

 

Having said that. I have always used windowed mode and DCS worked the same, minus bezel adjustment in PLP.

 

Softth did sort out the maps and combined arms. I can now play it using the center screen, no stretching across all screens.

 

So far I like it and it's worth using it for a while to see how it goes.

Well, here is the vid but I dont know why I bother, its too hard to get the feeling about the size of it when shooting from a camera.

 

Also, when I did the track I was using my TIR and had a better viewpoint that I couldnt seem to get with the numeric keypad.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2012 by metalnwood

Peter, all was going well... until I did the black area trick to export my mfds etc.

 

When I add the black section my frames drop from the first instant mission from high 30's to a more steady 25. With exports there and black section removed my frames are high again.

 

For some reason that trick costs me a lot of frames on my machine. hmm.

Hm...

As I did my tests with the black_square I was on a res of 3840x1790 - all on a HD6870 - and I didn't noticed a drop in performance at all.

 

But my settings can't be compared with yours...

 

 

 

 

 

I would like that you try a slightly different approach to set up this black_square like I describe here:

 

 

 

 

This is how you render a black square inside DCS:

(check the negative width/height ...and it has no impact on FPS)

 

 

...and here is a example in which kind of setting it can be very useful:

>>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1490580#post1490580

 

- it isn't out of the render now and I want you to set the aspect for this square as narrow as possible - so It cant contain a lot of render info.

 

In your case you should try this code (I extracted the needed info out of your SoftTHconfig):

 

Black_Square =

 

{

x = 1172;

y = 1080;

width = -1920;

height = -840;

aspect = 1/100;

}

 

EDIT:

 

Maybe you also have a V-ram/bandwidth problem at your end -

 

You can try to lower the resolution a little on the side-monitors to free- up some resources.

You can do it by editing the

transportResolution=1080x1920 to something like 720x1280 ...(Its also called the poor-mans AA ;))

... maybe worth a try.

 

BTW: Your video looks very nice and makes me jealous :)

 

And your cockpit doesn't look bad on the fourth monitor at all! - maybe ditch Helios and only use this view instead?

I'm doing exactly this - and together with a touch-screen . and I'm really satisfied with the touch-functionality to control everything directly.

 

 

And yes- the missing support for DX11 gives me also some headaches. - But I know that Kegetys also uses DCS - so I hope he will have a look at it when it's time.

:)

In the meantime everyone that uses SoftTH and is satisfied , should donate something to him - so he has a reason to continue the development further!!

>>SoftTH is donation-ware! << In the top right corner is a paypal button.

 

And even if you only have 50cent for him . Money doesn't gets bad just because it is not so much.

Edited May 8, 2013 by PeterP

I am a bit stumped as to what it could be?

 

I put the black square where you suggested and the same thing, they really dropped. So, I changed the resolution of the side monitors but no change in framerates at all. They were still low.

 

I removed the black square all together and I could then see the a10 dash on my 4th monitor again with all my exports on top but my frames were maybe 3-4 fps higher than before. Possibly because I stall had the lower resolution on the side screens.

 

It seems something to do with the black square. I would rule out vram or bandwidth based on the fact that all of my exports are already showing in the 'hidden' area under the portrait monitor and run fine when sent to the 4th screen.

 

Baffling for sure!

I also don't have a answer... Believe me :I was just glad to find a way to render a black area under exports!

 

So maybe adjust your view settings properly for Track ir first. And than have a go without exports and Helios .

Maybe you get used to use the 3D pit only.

 

As I said - it feels really much more natural and its a real joy to switch between Ka-50/Mustang/A-10 just without a hassle and setting up a different monitor lua for each plane at all.

Edited July 14, 2012 by PeterP

Im really not a fan of doing it like that. Having tried it, yep I think it is good alternative for other aircraft that dont have the helios profile but for the a10 that does I like having the mfds at full size permanently in place with the gauges not moving etc.

 

Just a preferenc thing but I do like it a lot more with helios.

 

At least the mfd's are solid so they dont have the game background. Just checking and the CDU is not a solid backgeround! If you have seen my thread where I am making a CDU you can understand why I need to fix that.

 

OK, just some more playing around, no biggie :)

I have maybe a Idea how to render a black square that is not a View-port ...

(so you are maybe able to get back the "missing" FPS again)

 

But we would have to use one of the existing avionics-exports for this.

(maybe we are also able to create a new device for only this purpose- but I have no big knowledge about it)

 

Here is the Theory:

We take the UHF repeater for instance - as it is not really needed so much.

 

Than we search for the textures that generates the digit-numbers - and make them all solid - so you cant read any numbers on it - just a solid square.

Than we can change the RGB values of it in the definition of this device to solid Black.

(I already did this with the controlls indicator - and it was not a real problem to identity the lines to change the color of it)

 

When we now put the UHF repeater at top of the MonitorSetup.lua it should be rendered under each following export.

 

And we should be able to re-size this as we want.

 

Viola!

 

I hope you can follow my thoughts.

Edit:

I have to tell that I'm not the person that will spend time on this - Maybe someone with the needed experience can check this approach I described to do a proof of concept :)

Edited July 14, 2012 by PeterP

Thanks Peter. What I played around with doing in the mean time was just extending the overall vert height of my render area.

 

ps, it was 10-15 fps I was loosing which was enough to take me from comfortably over the 30fps I like to just far enough under that I didnt, i.e. 24-25.

 

So as it is really the CDU I want going I added another 240 pixels to the Y and rendered it as 320x240. Softth can pull it out and transpose it on to the cdu at 640x480. I dont think it will make any difference that amout of stretching for that kind of text.

 

Good thing is my frames are back up and that little extra didnt seem to do anything. I am not back to 35-40 FPS, yay :)

Well - seems you have it working now ....

Impressive!

Dirty stitching and my phone camera couldn't hold the exposure but you get the idea.

 

 

Two 3/4 shots:

 

 

 

 

Would you be so nice if you tell us your exact settings /config including a performance overview?

 

So others can learn and we can somewhat "close this case".

:)

 

What interest me the most:

How is performance with SoftTH and without - running this set-up windowed?

Edited July 29, 2012 by PeterP

Oh yes! Always planed peter.

At the end there will be a summary and I am close

but I'm not done yet!

When I get my sripting to work and frames remain

acceptable I will break it down for you guys!

Little bit more patience so I can guarantee for the whole package :)