New Pay Model - Page 3 - ED Forums


View Poll Results: Would you prefer a Subscription based model if it meant more focus could be dedicated
Yes 73 16.74%
No 353 80.96%
Only if it doesn't slow down the rate that new modules are being released 10 2.29%
Voters: 436. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2019, 02:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by twistking View Post
please, can someone explain to me, how one would prefer a subscription over a normal pay-per-license-model (you know, like software used to be sold)?
When was the last time you actually purchased software? As in you owned it?

Software publishers grant usage rights, and that's what we purchase in most cases, along with pages and pages of legal mumbo jumbo that tells us all the things we're not allowed to do with the software. So I don't see that much of a difference between a legally time-unlimited purchase and one that is subscription based and thus time-limited.

The thing is, if ED were to go out of business today, we'd be pretty much screwed. MP? Gone. SP? Might work for a much longer time in offline mode until a reinstallation is required, but without MP I would probably drop DCS rather quickly.

Some 10 years ago, I was totally against subscription models for entertainment purposes. I wanted the right to own the copies I purchased. Now I have a board full of DVDs that look like total crap on the 36" TV. I still own them, but they're perfectly worthless to me.

On Netflix, I can watch many of the same films and shows for a monthly fee, but at least the upscaling looks better than the one from my DVD player. Hell, I spent some 600 bucks on the TNG remaster on Blu Ray, and now I can watch all of it for 12 bucks a month (not that I'd manage all 178 episodes in such a short time ).

I don't even wanna know how much I've spent on DCS modules that I haven't flown more than a dozen or so hours. In the long run, I stick with less than a hand full of modules, but I usually purchase most of the new stuff anyway because it's all shiny and fancy.

What it comes down to: As is, ED will have to push out new modules for all eternity or go bankrupt. Or they could switch over to a subscription model, and the almost inevitable shift in product support would benefit me more than new modules.


Originally Posted by Tiramisu View Post
Last but not least ED is planning to create upgrade modules, which is going to allow them to support older modules without such a crazy subscription model. Currently they are only planing to offer an upgrade for the Ka-50, but I am sure other modules will follow.
I take it you weren't around when ED dared make Black Shark 2 a paid upgrade? I'd call it a shitstorm of rather epic proportions that raged for months. Some of the same voices were also heard when it came to a completely optional BS3 (in addition to a free cockpit upgrade, but I guess some people block "free update" and only get "PAY FOR IT AGAIN?!").

Let's stick with the Ka-50 for a while. I've heard that it's still high up on the list of best selling modules. After some update, the cockpit lighting was broken in a way that a few really important switches no longer had any visible on or off state, and what little contrast there is is inverted. It has been broken for many months now, if not years. It's great to get a free cockpit upgrade that will address not just these issues, but I'd say breaking core functionality is pretty bad. Keeping it broken for so long is very bad. So I've purchased a module that is either broken, or not compatible with any current DCS version. What a great choice.

My reasoning is that companies just can't delay fixing problems that long when people keep paying in order to access the product.

Last edited by Yurgon; 11-17-2019 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:48 AM   #22
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Now we get this discussion that nobody wants every month? Great.

Makes no sense for DCS (most people fly one or some planes but very extensively, nobody likes every plane), nobody likes it (as the poll shows every month) and it wouldnt encourage ED to get any faster with anything because why should that change anything to it.

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A-10C, UH-1H, F-86F, Fw-190D9, MiG-21bis, P-51D, Mi-8MTV2,Bf-109K4, MiG-15bis, L-39C, Hawk, NTTR, Mirage 2000C, SA342M Gazelle.

P-40, F-104G/S, Saab J-35 Draken, A-1H Skyraider, Su-17/22M4.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:52 AM   #23
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100% No
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:11 AM   #24
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I've owned lots of professional subscription software and ALL of it is hugely better maintained with more frequent free core improvements than competing one-time purchase software.

I think people should get over their knee-jerk distaste for the business model. The results speak for themselves.
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:13 AM   #25
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Fantastic idea, I suggest yearly payment of.. say 200$, also that way people who can only play the game 2-3 days a week or less could be sure that their planes were available for playing any day they wanted. Also they wouldn't need to plan ahead when they're in mood for playing because the payment would have been taken care of already.

So now that I have bought the modules I wanted, I'd have to start paying subscription fee to be able to play them too. Whoever thought of this must be genius.

If the subsciption fee would be applied only to new modules, ED would loose lots of customers because the majority of the people are against such anti-consumer crap.
Obviously ED would have to concentrate on the new modules which have subscription fee leaving the old modules behind and when the reality is that they all have some issues still, which wouldn't be fixed they would loose that customer base too.

You forgot the vote option 4; Only if the subscription makes ED employees superhumans who magically work faster.

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Old 11-17-2019, 03:26 AM   #26
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Organising it would be a nightmare at this point.
The masses would never accept it.
Polls and opinion pieces of this nature are pointless, when on topics that have exactly zero chance of being done.
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:38 AM   #27
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Subscription?! after I've already bought hundreds of dollars worth of product. Count me out, This has got to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

So we're mad at ED for not getting modules/core features to complete states fast enough, so lets give them MORE money before they deliver on things, only this time take away the ability to vote with your wallet and any incentive for them to continue support? Yeah sounds terrible, how about we just stop buying products before they're finished. They don't deliver they don't get paid, simple and effective.

Last edited by Wizard_03; 11-17-2019 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:04 AM   #28
Richard Dastardly
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Originally Posted by fredclan View Post
works great at iracing
Works absolutely *terribly* for development at iRacing - look at how notoriously long it takes them to do anything at all relating to new features. iRacing provides servers ( and indeed forces you to use their servers ) and a matchmaking system, that's where the subs goes mostly. IIRC they're actually funded as a rich guy's pet project & until recently ran at a loss.

In case you haven't guessed, I voted no. What would I get for my subscription? would I get every new module included in it? if I didn't, what am I paying for, and why should I pay twice for a module? what happens if I don't like whatever module is next in the pipe? having paid for my modules what happens if I find an increaase in subscription fee unbearable?

I'd be interested in the legal implications of locking someone out of a license they've already paid for by moving access to it behind a paywall, too. MS/Adobe/Autodesk as far as I'm aware have not blocked access to their previous standalone products. No support contracts, obviously, which matters more to corporates.

I think ED are simply going to have to charge more for modules at this point if they need more cashflow, or stop building modules that take so much work. There's lots of 3rd-gen aircraft that'd take far less time than a late block F-16 but would still sell well, as a simple example.
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Last edited by Richard Dastardly; 11-17-2019 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:57 AM   #29
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I don't get why you subscription idiots are so desperate to promise my money to other people.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:13 AM   #30
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gym subscriptions are the biggest waste of money on the planet..
good for the gym's but bad for the people who pay for them but never actually go..
and that is the greater share of gym memebrship payers.
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