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Old 01-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #21
Mozart
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Hi guys,

thank you a lot for your feedback on the experience with the Brunner base!

Is there any lag in the force feedback response? I remember on the Microsoft Force Feedback stick that I would move the stick and then, with a delay, the stick would apply pressure against my movement. That delay was a showstopper for me, it felt so unreal...

Could you report on the experience in the supported sims?

Take care,
Mozart.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:39 PM   #22
toutenglisse
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The delay in force feedback is software related. For exemple P3d's native force feedback is delayed (it's the only one I know that works weirdly this way) whatever the joystick is. The only way to corect this is to use a 3rd party force feedback software.

No delay with DCS.
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:50 PM   #23
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@Berniyh


I´m also very interested in this. Just noticed it recently. Who knows how long the old plastic gears of my G940 are going to last...

Brunner responded to my inquiry very much in the same way.
It seems that next to FSX, P3D and X-Plane DCS is the only title that doesn´t support dynamic forces yet and that it´s going to be a while until this changes - as always without any concrete indication. But it makes me hopeful.



@heloguy


You can properly use the force trim functionality of DCS helos on this?
Since helos are my main reason to go for this base I would think that it´s worth a try.
If FFB is added for DCS later it´ll be perfect.

It´s just very sad that the T-50 grip might not work with it...
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:46 AM   #24
tensa_yun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toutenglisse View Post
The delay in force feedback is software related. For exemple P3d's native force feedback is delayed (it's the only one I know that works weirdly this way) whatever the joystick is. The only way to corect this is to use a 3rd party force feedback software.

No delay with DCS.
I don't think P3D has a force feedback delay. I think what you're referring to, and what seems like a delay is the "Sensitivity" setting. I just tune that to make all my axis very sensitive, that gets rid of that issue for me.
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upupandaway View Post
@heloguy


You can properly use the force trim functionality of DCS helos on this?
Since helos are my main reason to go for this base I would think that it´s worth a try.
If FFB is added for DCS later it´ll be perfect.

It´s just very sad that the T-50 grip might not work with it...
Yes, it works, but you have to use Brunner's profile software to use it correctly. If you ever used the SimFFB utility that was floating around here, it gives you similar functionality. Under the 'Trim' tab in the Profile Manager, you choose 'Hardware Trim' mode. You choose what button on the grip is a trim release, as well as which buttons motor the trim hat. After you set a profile, you just need to remember to fire up the Brunner software (CLS2Sim), and click the connect button once your joystick is up and running. I could easily send you my profile for DCS helos and fixed wing if you send me a PM.


Definitely worth the extra step to have functioning trim in helos.


I've been using the stick with Prepar3D and X-Plane 11 with ok results. Both sims require a plug-in install to make the stick work properly in FFB mode. I haven't had good luck with trim in fixed wing applications, but the vibration due to engines and ground roll have worked fine. I've ended up using the 'Hardware Trim' mode with both of those sims as well. The turbulence function seemed very robotic, and had a set frequency, so I disabled it, as I found it annoying.

I think it would be nice if DCS ever got a plug-in, but based on what I've seen with Prepar3D and X-Plane, I won't cry if it never does. The effects are ok with those two sims, but I find the Buttkicker and Jet Seat to be adequate for feedback (especially the Jet Seat).

As far as the grip is concerned, I've pretty much stayed with the F-22 grip I cobbled together. I only slightly miss the push function of the CMS switch on my Warthog grip. I was able to get an older T-50 off E-Bay, and it works fine, but it's so tall, it doesn't fit in my sim setup. I'm currently using a 20cm Sahaj extension, so room for the joystick throw is at a premium (every time you plug in the power, it has to calibrate itself by moving through full roll and pitch axis travel, and must not be interrupted).

As it stands, this is my main control now, as it is smooth, precise, and allows for realistic trim for helos and fixed wing. I also own a Warthog, BRD Black Stork, 2xGunfighters, Mongoose T-50, FSSB R3, Microhelis EC-145 Cyclic, Komodosim EC-145 Cyclic, and Cougar, if that gives you any idea of what I've tried so far. It's been a long road, and longer search for what feels like the best all-around control (I fly helos for trade, and dabble in fixed-wing for leisure, so when I sim, I fly both).

Edit: Not sure why the picture rotated 90 degrees left, but hopefully you get the idea.
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Last edited by heloguy; 01-27-2019 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:15 PM   #26
toutenglisse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tensa_yun View Post
I don't think P3D has a force feedback delay. I think what you're referring to, and what seems like a delay is the "Sensitivity" setting. I just tune that to make all my axis very sensitive, that gets rid of that issue for me.
Thanks ! PM sent regarding this.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:55 AM   #27
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With regards to FFB inside DCS, it turns out that vJoy can receive FFB commands, and with an appropriate feeder, it's possible to do something when a FFB command is received. It also just so happens that Brunner has an API available for CLS2Sim that allows you to control force feedback with an external application while reading the state of the joystick position.

What this means is that it should be possible to write an application that glues vJoy together with CLS2Sim to get force feedback with the Brunner base in DCS (and any other game that supports FFB). I've looked a bit into this and I believe I can write the app, but without a Brunner base, I don't have access to the CLS2Sim software, and even if I did, there's not much point without a base to test against.

The challenge is in adapting FFB commands to CLS2Sim commands. FFB commands expects that the joystick understands how to implement the command, so for example the command might be something like "activate a spring force at 88 degrees with 200-level force for 0.5 seconds", and the base is expected to know how to do it. Looking at the CLS2Sim API though, it seems like it only supports simple "activate a force in a certain direction with a certain strength" until it receives a cancel command, though I won't be able to tell for sure until I get a base for myself to try it against. I will likely have to implement all the FFB effect types in a way that will duplicate the same effect in CLS2Sim with its simpler API.

With that said, I'm currently trying to drum up enough funds to purchase a base. Keep an eye out for an update from me.

Last edited by Ranma13; 01-29-2019 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:29 PM   #28
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I am running a motion rig and found that to be an issue with joystick creating PIO pilot induced oscillation, I was also lucky enough to have a fast jet pilot to give feedback, setting up the profiles to your liking will take you a while but once you do its worth it.

This is a big improvement my profile is able to replicate the ramp in stick force so you get a much more natural force and need to progressively pull as the Gs and aoa increase, without the motion base introducing unwanted movement i am now able to pull to a G very accurately.

Trim is working very well feels much more natural becomes second nature to nail on speed aoa.

Brunner have said they are working on DCS FF support so will be even better when thats out.

Very happy with this a very positive addition and cant go back.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:05 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simflight View Post
I am running a motion rig and found that to be an issue with joystick creating PIO pilot induced oscillation, I was also lucky enough to have a fast jet pilot to give feedback, setting up the profiles to your liking will take you a while but once you do its worth it.

This is a big improvement my profile is able to replicate the ramp in stick force so you get a much more natural force and need to progressively pull as the Gs and aoa increase, without the motion base introducing unwanted movement i am now able to pull to a G very accurately.

Trim is working very well feels much more natural becomes second nature to nail on speed aoa.

Brunner have said they are working on DCS FF support so will be even better when thats out.

Very happy with this a very positive addition and cant go back.
Any chance of sharing your CLS2sim profile?
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:20 AM   #30
Ranma13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simflight View Post
Brunner have said they are working on DCS FF support so will be even better when thats out.
Small correction, Brunner has never explicitly stated that they're working on DirectInput FFB support, only that they're interested in it but want to focus on their primary market for now (general aviation):

https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comme...feedback_news/
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