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Old 11-03-2018, 10:03 AM   #11
AeriaGloria
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While this is a dream come true, working part time with health expenses up the wazoo, I can’t do it. Warthog,yes. Not this. Understand it’s not for us it’s for commercial apps, instead of marketing DCS they should say it’s compatible with TBS(The Battle Simulator) the commercial branch of a DCS
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:32 AM   #12
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Yeah, their focus is definitely on professional aviation training.
But since I don't have the time to realize the DIY FFB Joystick and an aciant MS FFB stick isn't an option for me, this is the best I could get, even though for DCS it's currently quite limited.
The Iris Dynamics looks very interesting as well, but I doubt it will be cheaper, comparing the prices of the corresponding yokes of the two companies.
Maybe within 5 years time things will change, we'll see.
If I get it (and currently I'm 90% certain that I will), I will of course report back.

You might be right about TBS, but I'm a bit sceptical that they can really get many customers for that.


Edit: btw, the CSL-P Cyclic looks reeeeeeaaallly sweet. But the price … ouch …
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:42 PM   #13
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I asked the Brunner customer service reps about using the hardware trim functionality to emulate helicopter force trim, with a trim release button, in sims that aren’t supported by their API (specifically DCS). They confirmed that this is true, using their software, it’s possible.

I took the plunge, and will definitely report back once I’ve received the stick, and tried it. The only thing that worries me, is the max force is much less compared to that of their cyclic, so I hope it can stand up to using an extension with the Warthog grip.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:11 PM   #14
Berniyh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heloguy View Post
I asked the Brunner customer service reps about using the hardware trim functionality to emulate helicopter force trim, with a trim release button, in sims that aren’t supported by their API (specifically DCS). They confirmed that this is true, using their software, it’s possible.

I took the plunge, and will definitely report back once I’ve received the stick, and tried it. The only thing that worries me, is the max force is much less compared to that of their cyclic, so I hope it can stand up to using an extension with the Warthog grip.
Depends on the extension, I'd say. It won't be able to support a 30-50 cm extension or the forces would be rather low.
They also told me that the drives might overheat (might prevent that by setting the max torque a bit lower, e.g. 4 Nm) and that the stick might start shaking (might be able to fix that with a different force profile).
If it's just a 10 cm extension, I wouldn't worry too much, since they specifically support the T-50, which is already a quite a bit taller than the Warthog.

Personally, I think I will use it as a side-mount base and my Warthog grip, maybe with a 5-10 cm extension, not sure yet.
Already ordered the stick, will go on its tour on the 14th.
Need to design a mount first, though. ^^
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berniyh View Post
Depends on the extension, I'd say. It won't be able to support a 30-50 cm extension or the forces would be rather low.
They also told me that the drives might overheat (might prevent that by setting the max torque a bit lower, e.g. 4 Nm) and that the stick might start shaking (might be able to fix that with a different force profile).
If it's just a 10 cm extension, I wouldn't worry too much, since they specifically support the T-50, which is already a quite a bit taller than the Warthog.

Personally, I think I will use it as a side-mount base and my Warthog grip, maybe with a 5-10 cm extension, not sure yet.
Already ordered the stick, will go on its tour on the 14th.
Need to design a mount first, though. ^^
Big difference on WH and Virpil in weight. If you are going to pay that much for a stick i would just mod a different grip like the Virpil or a plastic F16 one. The WH is such a bitch to mod extensions due to its weight for helicopter flying and any FFB stick, inertia and so on. It will be a far easier and better experience
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:50 AM   #16
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I am extremely interested in how the force trim feels once you get it in, especially since MonsterTech now has a mounting plate for it. Please keep us updated!
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trigen View Post
Big difference on WH and Virpil in weight. If you are going to pay that much for a stick i would just mod a different grip like the Virpil or a plastic F16 one. The WH is such a bitch to mod extensions due to its weight for helicopter flying and any FFB stick, inertia and so on. It will be a far easier and better experience
The warthog is what I have right now, so it's just the easy choice.
Personally, I'm not a big button user. I only use four buttons on the stick anyway (thumb for trim, trigger for radio, pinky for brake (Mi-8R) or sling (Huey) and button right forward for trim reset).
Don't really need any of the coolies tbh, I get along just fine.


I'm also using the warthog throttle as a collective (in reverse) even though I plan on getting a proper collective from microhelis, but I'm not in a hurry there, since the warthog throttle does a fine job.
But again, I only use very few buttons on that throttle, but rather use the clickables in the cockpit where I can.
Also, if I asign functions to buttons, I tend to use my Arcaze button box, because I can manipulate the button behavior there, which I can't (at least not without Target, which personally I hate) on the warthog.


So … what I wanted to say is that I thought about getting that VPC grip, but since I already have the warthog I'm not in a hurry there. Still can always go in that direction if I want to later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma13 View Post
I am extremely interested in how the force trim feels once you get it in, especially since MonsterTech now has a mounting plate for it. Please keep us updated!
Sure will. If everything goes according to plan, I will receive it next week.
I might have to do the first experiments with very low force though since I have yet to built the mount. Can't use the MonsterTech one because my rig has a different layout and it wouldn't work.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:24 PM   #18
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So, I received my base today.


Content: base, PSU, USB cable and quick start guide
If you just want to use it as a joystick, it's pretty much plug&play. Directly available as a normal HID joystick with a medium force profile.
There is no noticable stepping effect, it's very smooth, especially around the center.
That already is a big upgrade from the (unmodified) Warthog due to the well known problems the Warthog has.
The buttons on the stick (Warthog grip in my case) are passed through in the same order as for the Warthog, afaics.


I did some initial setting up, but this was only very quick work (maybe 10min in total), so there is a lot of optimization possible.
From the default profile, I reduced the overall force a bit (force factor 25 from 10 standard where higher means lower force), reduced hydralics centering from 400 (%?) to 200 on both axis.
Also reduced the trim speed, so it doesn't happen so instantaneously.

Select hardware trim (since we don't have a connection to the sim) and set one button as trim release (to set the trim) and one as trim reset.
Works quite nicely.


In DCS I did a short flight in the Huey and while I still have to get used to the (now) lower forces and especially lower resistance, it felt much much better immediately.
I felt that I was much more in control of the helicopter and could actually give the (micro) input I want to give.
In many cases it's not really like you're really moving the stick but rather that you "think" that you move it in a direction.
From what I've read and heard about helicopters, this is pretty much how it's done IRL.


I still have to practice, because from the Warthog I got used to do exaggerated movements and corrections (due to the missing smoothness and the relatively high forces required), so I'm overshooting sometimes still, but even in the few minutes I did fly the Huey earlier on, I was improving rapidly.
Especially the transition from forward flight to hover seems more natural and easier.


So … for the moment I'm a very happy (and proud) owner of the brunner FFB base.
Much testing ahead, both in DCS and in XP11. Looking forward to the weekend.


Edit: the only thing I don't like so far is that the leather covering of the base makes some kind of creaking noise when moved to the right and then forward/backward.
Thankfully when concentrating on flying, it's unlikely that you'll notice and at least in a helicopter that kind of movement is uncommon.

Last edited by Berniyh; 11-15-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:32 AM   #19
heloguy
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Just received mine today. Definitely a nice piece of equipment, and DCS would definitely be awesome if the FFB plugin ever became a reality.

So far, I only have two complaints: 1) It's pretty bulky, and as I intend to use it primarily for helo flights, it's kind of a pain to get it setup for a center mount. I have the Monstertech mount for it, but it just exacerbates the base size. Basically, I'm going to have to figure out a way to mount it low, with a really light extension and grip so as not to dampen the force feedback, or stress the motors too much.

2) I bought a T-50cm grip from Virpil, thinking that would fill the gap of a light grip, but unfortunately, no matter what I do, I can't get the buttons to register. I have a BRD Black Stork with a Warthog grip on it. The Warthog grip works on both bases. For whatever reason, the T-50 will only work with the Black Stork base. I've contacted both Brunner, and Virpil. So far, Virpil says they don't know what the problem is, and that they don't list the CLS-E as a compatible device. We'll see if Brunner has any ideas...

Otherwise, so far the base is great as a helicopter cyclic. I'm able to assign whatever button I like as a trim release, as well as a trim hat for fine tuning. I'm looking forward to trying it out with Prepar3D and XPlane to see what the native FFB modes are like.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:23 PM   #20
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Small update. I converted a Thrustmaster F-22 stick grip using the tailpiece from an old Warthog grip (I actually bought stuff from Shapeways to do it, but nothing fit exactly right).

The grip is good since it's lighter, so that may become the primary if I can't get the T-50 to work. I've also found an extension for sale on E-bay where the seller is willing to customize the extension length. I'm getting a custom length of his so-called 'Goose Neck' version, so I can move my seat closer to the stick without contacting the extension.

The listing is posted here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINIUM-E...-/292123030904

After sending him a .ppt with measurements of what I want, he told me he'd go ahead and make it, send me pictures, and then I can buy it through the listing on Ebay.
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