Cheating

I disagree.

Honestly:

I think, the 'cheating' thing is working both ways.

Yes, there are pilots who get frustrated after being killed for the xy time on a HL server, and yes, the may get the impression (justified or not) that there is something wrong here..

But also yes,

There are wings and squadrons, devoting time and money to keep HL servers up and running for the benefit of the community. But the same guys should do everything possible to make their job very transparent to all others, so the chance for mistrust growing is the lowest possible.

90 % (or even higher) of 'cheating' is a perception thing, that normally is not based on clear facts and likely will be very hard to prove. But on the other hand, it also is hard to prove for those that have been accused of cheating, that they played fair.

Are there any good / workable proposals as how to restore trust and credibility among HL users ?

I don't think you've followed the thread properly Pilotasso.

Stay on topic are you talking about just madogging as usual or basically where this thread has come from 'LRM is a cheat' even though LRM tries to stop exploiters. What TOMCATZ is claiming is that people disappear, change missile behaviour, changing G-limits etc and he bases this on LRM being used in servers.

Quite absurd.

I was quite on topic, my point was that cases observation was moot considering what has been said so far.

He speaks for everybody getting high kill ratios do it thanks to good team work. That requires alot of dogmatic faith from me to beleive it. ;)

Kinda the same way I cant prove anyone is cheating as he cant prove his claim either.

Well the system isn’t there for you or remote pilot/mission designer/lock on philosophy/ to collect the bearings in public multiplayer.

There can be a solution though,…

He speaks for everybody getting high kill ratios do it thanks to good team work. That requires alot of dogmatic faith from me to believe it.

Are there any good / workable proposals as how to restore trust and credibility among HL users ?

To give you the 2 sentence explanation:

LRM tries to make LockOn more realistic by working around some of the exploits in the game. However, it can only do this with the commands a pilot himself can give.

What this means is that, for example, to stop you from taking off from taxiways, LRM will engage the wheelbrakes and throttle down the engines so you never go faster than 70 km/h when on the taxiways. It does this by sending pressing 'w' or 'PgDn' for you, just like you would do yourself if you wanted to slow down.

In the same way, LRM could never influence missile behaviour like G-limits or rocket thrust, simply because you, as a pilot, cannot do so. To claim that games on servers are modded to control missile behaviour is ridiculous.

This whole thread and the thread on the German forums is primarily due to a misunderstanding of LRM.

I don't think you've followed the thread properly Pilotasso.

Stay on topic are you talking about just madogging as usual or basically where this thread has come from 'LRM is a cheat' even though LRM tries to stop exploiters. What TOMCATZ is claiming is that people disappear, change missile behaviour, changing G-limits etc and he bases this on LRM being used in servers.

Quite absurd.

Was this in another thread? Because I don't see that said here.

Was this in another thread? Because I don't see that said here.

Maybe you should read the thread again.

This whole thread and the thread on the German forums is primarily due to a misunderstanding of LRM.

I am sorry, we are not talking about LRM, but we're talking about cheating generally. And some programmers said that with a little bit off experience in LUA Scripting you can read out nearly everything out of the game.

Futhermore can LRM not prevent "the cheater" from pressing his print button rapidly and so on.

Just to say, what the thread is really about!

Fahrenheit

I am sorry, we are not talking about LRM, but we're talking about cheating generally. And some programmers said that with a little bit off experience in LUA Scripting you can read out nearly everything out of the game.

I think you're missing the point Case is trying to make here, LRM prevents people from running their on programmed LUA-scripts locally as LRM FORCES the export.lua on to the client. There no way around this. You can have all the scripts you want on your end, they will not be used...

However, on the topic of general cheating, yes no one can prevent print screening and such, but then again, how would you prove it as opposed to lag?

......yes no one can prevent print screening and such, but then again, how would you prove it as opposed to lag?

In DCS there is a message (or was Pre-Patch? Have not seen it Post-Patch) that flashes up onto the screen in MP whenever someone captures a screenshot with the 'Offending' Pilot's details and the like.

Admittedly this is a mere annoyance in DCS atm as I have never experienced any Helo's Winging about like Flies on Crack avoiding Vikhrs with the attendant Screenshot Capture message......

I would assume that the same would be incorporated into the 1.13 Update/Patch so at least that would be something to look forward to, especially if a pre-programmed macro would have the effect of filling up the entire MP screen with Capture messages, for all except the Offending Pilot to see. Become Real Popular Real Quick He Will!

Dunno why LRM keep comming up in this thread everytime someone mentions exploits or the lack of evidence there of,

LRM in its release form has anti-cheat features. However super situational awareness scripts have been arround long before it. Further, anyone with experience with LUA can host a game with a modified, cut down, or partialy blocked version of LRM. Its adjustable. The argument whatever you can exploit or not under LRM to me is moot.

So whatever announced LRM version a given server has, to me is completely irrelevant, and insufficient as warranty. Whats relevant to me is the seriousness of the people implementing it, and then each of the player in that enviroment. Thats what counts for a good session.

everything else is backtalk and demagogy.

Cant argue with that, if your point of view is that the server hosts are leaving loopholes in their LRM so that they can cheat for them selfs, then there is not much one can do.

I have yet to see any proof of that, or that of any other cheats for that matter. There are a lot of claims of cheating but very little stuff to back it up. Show us some tracks/tacviews of it before screaming foul play...

Ive had my fair share of flying on HL through the years and I have not seen many cheats, extremely few actually. I can understand that it's very easy to get those thoughts in the heat of battle when you loose SA and someone gets you from nowhere. But after reviewing ACMIs, 99.99% of the time, you'll find that it was simply some great flying or pure luck from the other guy.

There was this one time where a guy popped 60+ flares in a MiG-29A on our server and that is clearly not doable without some kind of alterations to the game, but that is pretty much the only cheat (except LOPE) I can recall seeing.

 

However, on the topic of general cheating, yes no one can prevent print screening and such, but then again, how would you prove it as opposed to lag?

Can one force disable printscreening thru Lua?!

Can one force disable printscreening thru Lua?!

Im not a programmer, so I would not no :) Case or Yoda can maybe answer that. (I would bet no, otherwise they would probably have done it :) )

I recall Yoda looked into it, seeing if screenshots were taken by keeping track of the number of files in the screenshots directory, but I don't think he got it working.

Anyhow, I do not think printscreening is a problem. It is very rare to see a warp that you can attribute to a print screen.

 

There was this one time where a guy popped 60+ flares in a MiG-29A on our server and that is clearly not doable without some kind of alterations to the game, but that is pretty much the only cheat (except LOPE) I can recall seeing.

I noticed that too coming from a F-15C few day ago, I was reviewing the ACMI later on and I had to slooooow the track to count all that... I counted for 100+ Flares being popped within 5 or 5,5 seconds. I can't say it's a cheat as I know not the amount of flares the Eagle has nor the sequencing and Flares per sec count the Eagle has but I guess it's some bloody logical programming script in Foxy or SST!

He got away with excuse it was a continious flare dump (Shift+q) command that "sometimes" goes berserk and can cause such behaviour in MP. :huh:

Edit:

Did you guys notice AI flights have unlimited countermeasures. Once they start popping they pop 'til hell freezes over, perhaps it might be related to unrealistic nr of flares cheat?!

 

I have yet to see any proof of that, or that of any other cheats for that matter. There are a lot of claims of cheating but very little stuff to back it up. Show us some tracks/tacviews of it before screaming foul play...

 

As I said before, wont do it/wont be lured into that pointless discussion. Only noobs would be caught using missiles or planes out of their speed and turn envelopes, and its too difficult to tell print screen from lag anyway. Theres so many missiles going in straight line, naming people makes me almost alone in the futile debates. I dont need it. Scrutinizing tracks for ego battles is a waste of time. I rather spend it flying. :)

Then stop posting in this thread :D

I counted for 100+ Flares being popped within 5 or 5,5 seconds. I can't say it's a cheat as I know not the amount of flares the Eagle has

It has 60, plus 120 chaff. The problem is that you're using an ACMI to prove cheating, and the ACMI can in fact be inaccurate at times. You need a proper in-game track.

As for shift-q going berzerk, never heard of it or need it ...

Ok, everyone knows what is the REAL situation with cheaters in online games... so lets cut pointless mambo jambo.

Ok, everyone knows what is the REAL situation with cheaters in online games... so lets cut pointless mambo jambo.

This is part of the problem everyone thinks they know but infact most of the time call cheat on anything they can't immediately explain.

I know the original poster flew on another server for the most part but when on our server he and his partners complaints were unfounded, claiming they couldn't barrel roll to avoid a missile, obviously making relation to the anti-barrel roll script in LRM, though clearly unknown to them this part of the LRM is not running on our server.

And they're other complaint was of magically disappearing aircraft on radar and visually, the case being the bandit that one was engaging at medium angels turned away while a higher bandit directly above at angels 13 continued engaging thus appearing to the unwitting that the lower bandit was still engaging while cold (cold contacts disappear of a Russian radar when the correct mode is not selected).

Both these instances were due to the lack of information at the time, nothing untoward happened.

As for the what happened on the other server I cannot say but only imagine it along the same lines.

Nobody is talking about your server. From time to time you guys seem to think that were targeting it. Not the case. Been flying on it myself.

So the conclusion is,

when you stop sucking the number of cheating incidents will notably decrease?

Nobody is talking about your server.

Yes, we are... As this is the only example we can speak for... ;)