Auto bombing mode

I think I stumbled on something strange. I set up a S300 battery up in the mountains and loaded 4 Mk83s to be tossed over the hill. I know there is a mode for this type shenanigans but I figured auto mode would do... and it did! As long as your jet is above the target's altitude. First, I had to input the target's altitude on the Data page: HSI>Data>UFC. (I don't know how to set this all up in Mission Editor) Then, I set the target's waypoint as TGT. As I turned toward the target the ASL line showed up and everything looked good but as soon as I maneuvered the jet below the target's altitude the ASL line disappeared. Well, in this case S300 was behind the hill anyway so I stayed above its altitude (3911ft.) and launched the bombs before they saw me. This was just the system test so... no RW S300 setup here, lol.

https://youtu.be/zTwNe-C2PrQ

Normal Operation, subterranean attacks are not considered :)

Normal Operation, subterranean attacks are not considered :)

LOL, fair enough!

Although it would be nice to retain the Azimuth Steering Line even if your route takes you below the target slightly. After the line disappears it will not re-appear until you re-enter the mode again above the alt. Oh, well.

I noticed this too. Dunno how it's supposed to be IRL.

I dont see what is strange about that. How do you expect it to calculate release point if you are below the target??

Well, let's see... azimuth and range from INS/GPS. Loft/Toss solution - I could probably do it with a calculator... no, I couldn't:doh: but the fire control computer could... if it really wanted to.

OK, I see

AUTO has full Vertical and lateral Toss capabilities (if the you are above the target)

Attached file shows example of TOSS. Release cue is a appearing late (WIP) should appear when Solution is possible before 45 deg NU.

Toss2.trk

AUTO has full Vertical and lateral Toss capabilities (if the you are above the target)

 

 

Attached file shows example of TOSS. Release cue is a appearing late (WIP) should appear when Solution is possible before 45 deg NU.

Thanks IvanK.

I guess I created this "fuss" by not explaining that I was talking about ingress phase. Simply having the ASL visible before reaching the release point even if you're below.

The AUTO bombing mode has some issues at the moment either way. Try bombing from 20k feet and see how they miss.

Thanks IvanK.

 

I guess I created this "fuss" by not explaining that I was talking about ingress phase. Simply having the ASL visible before reaching the release point even if you're below.

I haven't tested that, but after you WPDSG you have a steering cue on the HUDs compassline. A small caret in the direction of the target. The ASLfor ingress would be nice, but the caret should do as a steering cue...

You got me lost there, what did you mean by ASL for ingress?

 

 

thanks!

Auto mode has three indicators. The target marker caret (diamond shaped on the HUD representing the point on the ground where the bomb is supposed to hit). Then the ASL a vertical line running through the target marker, that represent your flight path to towards the target. And finally the release cue, the horizontal line coming down the ASL 5 sec prior to release.

Basically the pilot steers the velocity vector on the ASL and presses and holds the bomb release button before the release cue passes through the Velocity Vector.

Now the problem is, the ASL disappears if you fly lower as the designated target point, but the target marker should remain.

The target marker caret is presented on the HUD, on the compass band on the top of the HUD, as a small diamond and on the HSI page.

So if you steer precisely towards the target marker, monitor the time or distance to the designated WP/TGT and pull up at the right distance you should get the ASL and Release cue back as soon as you are higher than the target.

I need to try that later... :)

Ok, so much for the theory. Unfortunately the ASL does not show up again, after you dropped below the target altitude. Though the target mark remains.

When you pull up you can't drop.

Seems we need to wait for dedicated toss bombing mode(s).

:(

Ok, so much for the theory. Unfortunately the ASL does not show up again, after you dropped below the target altitude. Though the target mark remains.

When you pull up you can't drop.

 

Seems we need to wait for dedicated toss bombing mode(s).

 

:(

I was seeing this same behavior yesterday. After a few passes to get the target box where I wanted apparently I went below the target and the ASL line disappeared. Nothing I did would bring it back without losing where I placed the target mark.

It is bugged in accuracy and ED has acknowledged.

Accuracy of what? deployment of ordinance or designation of target or both? Because I cannot seem to get the Target accurately tagged via the HUD designation with the velocity vector

I have no issues using either Point Blank Designation (HUD VV) or via a NAVDSG/WYPT designation.

There are a couple of errors in the mechanization. With TDC Assigned to the HUD you can slew the TD diamond directly with the TDC. This is slightly in error.

Slewing the TD diamond IRL can occur in two states with TDC depressed known as "Action slewing" and with the TDC not depressed called "No action slewing". This is the preferred method. IRL as its ergonomically a lot easier to slew the diamond without having to hold the TDC depressed as well. To enable No action slewing the TDC is pressed momentarily, this segments the TD diamond indicating that No action slewing is available. The pilot can then slew as required. The real benefit is that the instant the slew is stopped a ranging sample is taken immediately to update the solution. For this reason it is beneficial to do a "micro slew" as late as possible.

Currently it doesn't seem you can tell the sim to hold the TDC down and slew it just assumes the TDC is depressed so you can slew to your hearts content. A momentary press of the TDC will segment the TD diamond and slew works ok. So in essence you can no action slew in the sim without the TDC depressed something you cant do in the jet ..... might be a key binding limitation.

To me Slew resolution is now an issue. In the HUD its now hard to slew super accurately. Previously it was much finer but a change occurred with people complaining about lethargic Radar Cursor slew rates. The radar cursor slew rates have been increased ... to the detriment of super precise HUD TD slewing.

As to accuracy well be sure you are tracking the ASL accurately if performing Dive Toss or Toss ensure your G is constant, and of course ensure your Designation is precise. Its a fact of life the longer the slant range accuracy diminishes, dumb bombs from 20K don't expect pickle barrel accuracy.

Same as No action slew just needs more uncomfortable finger work and is intrinsically less accurate since holding the TDC depressed and moving is awkward in comparison to direct No action slewing.

Either way a conscious key press to activate No action slewing or a Depress and hold TDC to action slew is required ... prevents a random slew if the TDC were bumped.

Same as No action slew just needs more uncomfortable finger work and is intrinsically less accurate since holding the TDC depressed and moving is awkward in comparison to direct No action slewing.

 

 

Either way a conscious key press to activate No action slewing or a Depress and hold TDC to action slew is required ... prevents a random slew if the TDC were bumped.

In "Action Slew", is the TGT designated when you release the action button? And will we get this eventually?

With the TDC Assigned to the HUD (Dot in VV) a momentary press of the TDC should result in a HUD designation the initial position of the TD diamond will vary on a number of factors. Once its there though you can slew either Action or No action to refine the designation. This is independent of any other sensor allowing visual designation.

It cant be done in the Sim at the moment but I am pretty sure it will come along in the future.

With the TDC Assigned to the HUD (Dot in VV) a momentary press of the TDC should result in a HUD designation the initial position of the TD diamond will vary on a number of factors. Once its there though you can slew either Action or No action to refine the designation. This is independent of any other sensor allowing visual designation.

 

 

It cant be done in the Sim at the moment but I am pretty sure it will come along in the future.

For the VR folks who one day I hope will have a HMD reticle in front of their noses moving along wherever they look... glance at a target over your shoulder and click to designate or mark it and send grid to someone. Once these online battles start unraveling forget the plan... especially flying CAS. Oops, I'm drifting off now a little.

Thanks for detailed description IvanK

In "Action Slew", is the TGT designated when you release the action button? And will we get this eventually?

So you need to be careful not to accidentally slew the target designator.

If you press Sensor select switch up you can designate using the Velocity Vector/reticle and slew action (press and hold) is supported. The moment you "release" the button is where it designates.

(At least it worked that way in DCS last Sunday).

With the TDC Assigned to the HUD (Dot in VV) a momentary press of the TDC should result in a HUD designation the initial position of the TD diamond will vary on a number of factors. Once its there though you can slew either Action or No action to refine the designation. This is independent of any other sensor allowing visual designation.

 

 

It cant be done in the Sim at the moment but I am pretty sure it will come along in the future.

Wow, just tried the HUD slewing and it is wild and jerky...not smooth...is this the resolution you're referring to?

Wow, just tried the HUD slewing and it is wild and jerky...not smooth...is this the resolution you're referring to?

This will get addressed during early access I'm pretty sure. Currently I can live with the workaround with a slower Radar cursor...

Yes. You can try to adjust the slew axis if you use the HOYAS Warthog Slew ministick for example. 50-60% Y-axis saturation makes it manageable, but slows down the Radar cursor, as well.

 

This will get addressed during early access I'm pretty sure. Currently I can live with the workaround with a slower Radar cursor...

Yes, good suggestion... I do have the radar cursor's vertical and horizontal movement assigned as axes to a gamepad 8-way hat (alas, not the expensive Warthog throttle) and perhaps I can tune it better until they address this....thanks for the info

Yes. You can try to adjust the slew axis if you use the HOYAS Warthog Slew ministick for example. 50-60% Y-axis saturation makes it manageable, but slows down the Radar cursor, as well.

 

This will get addressed during early access I'm pretty sure. Currently I can live with the workaround with a slower Radar cursor...

I tried that first. It was exactly the way you described it. I also tried leaving Y axis saturation at a 100 for both and changing the curve to 50. This way in AA radar I can still move the cursor fairly quickly if I push the trackball on my Warthog hard enough and slow when I push it slightly.

On the HUD, if I barely touch the TDC in any direction it behaves OK. I have to zoom in the HUD depending on distance but for now I can deal with it (in non-action mode as ivanK described)

Well, won't we eventually be able to fine tune the HUD designation with the FLIR? Is there a handoff to FLIR?

Edit: I changed my axis tune to Sat X: 100 Sat Y: 40 Curv: 100 for both horizontal and vertical and it seems to work very well for me...even the radar cursor moves smoother now and moves fast enough and accurately enough to lock a blip with cursor