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Old 09-28-2018, 12:37 AM   #21
Jester986
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I wouldn't reccomend the F-18 as it is no where near complete. The Harrier is awesome but again not complete and going through growing pains. I would lean towards the F-5 because it is the easiet plane to learn systems wise. The Mirage is a great dogfighter and a decent strike aircraft. Actually better than the F-5 because of CCIP/CCRP as was mentioned although I believe INS bombing has not been enabled. It is however a more difficult aircraft to learn to use very well. So the F-5 would be a better starter aircraft but if you're not intimidated by learning systems and can only afford one go Mirage. The Viggen is excellent module but not a competent dogfighter and its rather difficult to learn well.
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Old 09-28-2018, 04:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A2597 View Post

What I'm looking for:

My primary goals currently are to learn flying and spend some time doing high speed low level flights, with future proofing options for ground strikes, some light air combat (maybe dogfights? more interested in ground target strikes though).
I'm going to immediately rule out the Mirage for you. It's not very capable for A2G work. Your only three A2G weapon options are dumb bombs, LGBs, and rockets. The dumb bombs are limited to CCIP deliveries for high-drag and CCRP deliveries for low drag/LGBs. LGBs you can't use without buddy lase as the Mirage can't carry a targeting pod.

The Viggen is perfect for what you want. It's simple, easy to fly, and is designed for low, fast, one pass haul ass strikes. I think the most difficult part is the weapons' system logic, but that may just be my personal fossilization of USAF/USN logic conflicting with the Swedish logic. There might be an English cockpit mod out there, but honestly non-English cockpits--that use the Roman alphabet at least--aren't really an issue. Acronyms are acronyms regardless of language, and I cannot remember the last time I actually read a switch or gauge label. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between an airspeed indicator, VVI, ADI, and engine temp gauge just by taking a quick glance at them. Cyrillic on the other hand.....

I would also consider the Hornet. I see you mentioned it may be "too much of a jet," and I can see that considering the systems are more complex. But, it can also do essentially what the Viggen does with the added capability of defending itself quite well in A2A. It's also incredibly easy to fly, and I find the cockpit layout to be quite intuitive with ample spacing between switches.
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Last edited by Nealius; 09-28-2018 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:25 AM   #23
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If you're afraid that the Hornet or Hog are too complex as the first aircraft - don't. They are actually easier to employ and use efficiently than other aircraft mentioned in this thread. You have a navigation system that nicely shows you where you are on a moving map. You have sensors that nicely show you enemy position and weapons that let you hit the enemy with high precision.
Harrier would be also in this category but it is unfinished and bugged. Unlike the Hornet, it has no training missions, limited documentation and the bugs are all over the place, making it a poor choice for a beginner. For example the primary bombing mode (CCRP) is bugged since the release. And you still can't control bombs release interval.
Viggen has a very specific mission profile and quirky avionics that actually require more attention from the pilot. It's very cool if you know what you're doing, but I'm not sure it's good training material as a first aircraft. It's not a point and shoot kind of weapon.
Other planes mentioned in this thread have very limited a2g capabilities. The F5 is basically fixed sights, WWII style bombing only.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester986 View Post
Actually better than the F-5 because of CCIP/CCRP as was mentioned although I believe INS bombing has not been enabled.
INS bombing is enabled since release. Campaign Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Actually one of the later campaign missions require you to do an INS bombing run in Death Star Trench style through a valley.


Quote:
Originally Posted by some1 View Post
Harrier would be also in this category but it is unfinished and bugged. Unlike the Hornet, it has no training missions, limited documentation and the bugs are all over the place, making it a poor choice for a beginner.
An opinion is an opinion but this statement makes it look like the Hornet is not bugged and unfinished but it is the opposite: the A2A radar never worked good since release and it seems there is a long time to go to be able to do BVR with the F/A-18C, the mentioned training missions are the very basic things like ramp start and landing (on an air field not on a carrier). Before the hornet gets the Targeting Pot and FLIR the FLIR system will be reworked from ED, so it takes quite a lot of time until the TPOD is available. The Harrier has DMT (build in targeting pod, but without laser), FLIR and TPOD (with laser) with the old system (same logic as A-10C) already ingame and it works fine.

I would not recommend both of them because of the mentioned bugs and the unfinished state (thats OK, because they are early acces) as a first high fidelity module. I only want to point out that the downsides of the EA release applies to both modules and not only the harrier.

In addition to not start a flame war: many people aren't happy with Razbam as it has (for them) not the very high standards (in system depth and "art" like sound and graphic) of ED or Heathblur modules. This might be true, but however the M-2000C and Harrier are nice and high quality modules with not nearly the worse state some people are talking about.
If you had a look to civil aircraft sims, the 3rd party aircraft at the price range of the M-2000C, the Razbam modules a far better than these (and i will never ever buy again add on aircraft for these civil sims because of this, except maybe very high quality planes, but the price tag of these is very much over the DCS modules).

But if this is a very important point for you, you have to take look into maybe some youtube videos or reviews of the modules of Razbam to see if it fits your expectations.

Last edited by The_Dan; 09-28-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:32 AM   #25
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Go F18. I was a civilan (P3dv4) Airbus guy till the F/A 18 hit the store. Now I am in the process of mastering it, (I finally managed to complete an A/A refueling last week, that was really fullfilling). I am going step by step, slowly enjoying it. With the experience you have you can manage pretty well basic tasks as startup, takeoff, fly, landing (here you should apply very well the thrust to climb/descend rule as as the landing is AOA based both on ground/carrier, but there are pretty good tutorials out there). Go for it, I had no regrets, it's beautiful and fun.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:49 AM   #26
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Another vote for the F/A-18. This will be ED's primary module for some time to come.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
Sounds like Harrier might be your cup of English tea (to be read with a British accent). It is a fast ground attack aircraft that can hold its own in a2a battle. And it is only going to get better.

VTOL and ability to refuel / rearm with engine running means minimal downtime between flights.

Startup procedure is short so it literally takes 30 seconds to go from cold/empty aircraft to flying with CAP / light CAS load.

And it can take a pounding just like A-10. Can't fly with a wing missing though, but nobody is perfect.

On a downside, wings tend to snap off during high-G maneuvers and VTOL has a bit of a learning curve. Some bugs are present (early release) but nothing game breaking.

But other than that - think of it as cross between A-10/F-18/UH-1H.
If you try the F18 this weekend and it isn’t for you, I’d second this recommendation for the Harrier.

I think based on what you want, you are going to end up in the Hornet, whether that happens right away or down the road. The Harrier has a very similar HOTAS and MFD logic as the Hornet, so transitioning from one to the other is very easy.

There are some bugs and incomplete items in the Harrier, but the Hornet is more A-G limited right now. The Harrier is a lot of fun, especially low level night attacks using the HUD FLIR (when it works properly lol)
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:24 PM   #28
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I would say go Hornet. It will give you the most options for A-G and A-A down the line. ED is the most solid thrustworthy dev around. Since they also make the DCS world engine, you will have unprecedented support.

Viggen is also ofc. a great choice for FAST, low level, pre-planned strikes with coldwar technology. But very specialized in it's role. Solid module, but not for everyone.

Choose an aircraft you are interested in and learn to fly it well. It is way more fun and important than getting some quick highscores online.

Last edited by Schmidtfire; 09-28-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:39 PM   #29
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INS bombing is enabled since release.
Not the best example as the INS in the Mirage has been broken for a long time making INS bombing just a gimmick:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207327
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179802

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dan View Post
An opinion is an opinion but this statement makes it look like the Hornet is not bugged and unfinished but it is the opposite:
As I said, the problem with the Harrier is that the bugs are all over the place, making it hard to perform even basic functions. Almost a year since release and it still can't drop bombs in trail, CCRP is broken making it unnecessarily difficult to drop bombs from level flight (both guided and unguided). TGP also has plenty of bugs lingering for months, like https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215959

Maybe veteran customers are used to it, but there are better choices for a newcomer. Hornet at least has a solid base and the bugs are removed on a (bi)weekly basis.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:40 PM   #30
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If the complexity of F/A-18C is the only thing preventing you from getting it, I would not worry. It is still pretty simple because many features are not implemented yet. You will learn as they are added. It is also very easy to fly and you don't have to do Case I carrier landings at all if you don't want to .
+1...yes the Hornet is the best modeled jet I've seen in any sim, and given its state of development the learning curve is not extreme. There are many wings out there with training programs as well.
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