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TF-51D & Multi-crew


tom1502

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If there was a plan, and it was serious, it would have been announced, ED do release statements about impending plans, despite the usual caveats. I'm sure they have fingers in several pies and there is an awful lot of juggling.

 

Personally, and of no real worth to the conversation, I think it won't get done. Multiplayer cockpits are fairly easy to imagine, the product is free for the TF-51D and there is a better, dual seat trainer for commercial access, which at less of a price than a full PC game isn't a leap of faith, but just a small step of the imagination.

 

ED have stated their investment is in the Georgia map and 2.5 for their giveaway for now.

Hi all,

 

I wondered whether there was any plan to implement a multi-crew solution into the TF-51 Mustang? It would be great, as an aircraft every player of DCS World has, if it could be used to give people an introduction to the sim with an experienced pilot on board showing them the ropes. I appreciate that there is the L-39, but this requires people to purchase it, which for a new player that is unsure of whether or not they want to persevere with the Sim might be asking a bit much.

 

I know that there are members of my squad that would appreciate this kind of implementation as they are still unsure about DCS, because they're daunted by how much they have to set up and it's a different sim. Each time we have introduced someone though they've really liked it. I just think this could assist in that and increase the take up of the sim :)

 

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this,

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

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SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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Having multi crew cockpits in a lot of our multi crew modules will be a dream come true, especially for helicopter training. But not freeware, people can fly the TF-51 and SU-25 free they dont need to be chauffeured about, just have a keyboard;)

i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64

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  • 1 year later...

I'm all for TF-51D multicrew. I'd love it. It would be nice to go for a joyride and enjoy the flight without actually thinking of what to do and where to point the plane next. It would also be good for training. I've taught many folks on how to startup, and takeoff the Mustang. And there's always something that they get caught up on. Either it's the fuel booster, or incorrect magneto position, or when to turn the mixture to run. That is sometimes terrible explaining on my part, but being in the cockpit with the man would greatly improve the experience, and allow me to quickly fix his (our) errors.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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I posted a "wish" quite a while ago for something to help in teaching others: Instructor's Tool.

 

I personally find that sitting the back seat, would not be terribly useful for teaching somebody how to operate an aircraft. From the back seat, you'd still be blind to what switches they are operating etc., because all you can see is the back of their seat.

 

The jumper seat might be nice to provide a ride-along, for somebody who has DCS installed, but that's really about it.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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Normally the student sits in the front seat unless you are doing "Blind Flying" where the student sits in the back with a blind flying hood closed and flys only on instruments. I assume the TF-51 was the same?

 

Having a multi-seat trainer that is included in the free download version of the sim would increase sales considerably I think. Right now there are members of my squadron who will not fly DCS because they feel that it is too complicated for them. They will happily fly BoX and press "E" and watch the start up procedure but will not take the time to learn to fly the TF-51 with an experienced pilot because they tried it once in Single Player and could not get it off the ground. very frustrating.

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I posted a "wish" quite a while ago for something to help in teaching others: Instructor's Tool.

 

I personally find that sitting the back seat, would not be terribly useful for teaching somebody how to operate an aircraft. From the back seat, you'd still be blind to what switches they are operating etc., because all you can see is the back of their seat.

 

The jumper seat might be nice to provide a ride-along, for somebody who has DCS installed, but that's really about it.

Well, I thought on this, and when I'm in the TF-51D, I can see into the backseat pretty clearly. It would be easier (not having to turn your head) the other direction, seeing from the jumper seat into the cockpit. The pilots could be disabled similarly to the Mi-8, and for your own client; Both enabled, pilot disabled, both disabled. You see what they're doing, what the have on, off, or in an incorrect position, even if they didn't tell you (because they're new, the wouldn't know it's wrong). This is my biggest problem when instructing someone in DCS; I can't see what they're doing.
Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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How do you get into the jumper seat in the TF-51D? I wasn't aware that was possible.

 

Anyway, my suggestion included a pointer for the "instructor" to use, which the pilot could see. The instructor ought to be able to see the pointer of the pilot as well. The instructor could use his pointer to well point to switches the pilot should operate, or instruments for the pilot should pay attention to, etc. Communications between pilot and instructor would be through 3rd-party SW like TeamSpeak etc, which would not impact DCS at all.

 

IMHO it ought not be terribly difficult to implement, and ought to be universally available. In other words, it wouldn't be specific to any aircraft, because it's just a Point-Of-View for the instructor, which would be the default POV of the pilot--so no special definitions per AC--, and a pointer. Simple and effective.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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How do you get into the jumper seat in the TF-51D? I wasn't aware that was possible.

It's not, that would be what we are wishing for.

 

Anyway, my suggestion included a pointer for the "instructor" to use, which the pilot could see. The instructor ought to be able to see the pointer of the pilot as well. The instructor could use his pointer to well point to switches the pilot should operate, or instruments for the pilot should pay attention to, etc. Communications between pilot and instructor would be through 3rd-party SW like TeamSpeak etc, which would not impact DCS at all.

 

You can sort of do this with TacView, limited at the moment and the instructor needs the pro version which costs more. Still, not the same as flying in the same a/c as a free downloadable a/c included with the game that would increase interest and likely lead to more sales.

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I'm at a loss. What exactly can you do with TacView? Becasue I have a TacView advanced license, and I am clueless as to how I can look inside the cockpit of any other AC, beyond the couple basic of instruments you can display, which is basically just the telemetry data in a generic analog display. And how can TacView allow me to point to instruments in the cockpit of another AC? Am I missing something major here?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System Specs.

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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My suggestion would be using some sort of free meeting software. My squadron uses Team Viewer. It's a free download and doesn't require a license for home use and allows screen sharing. It even allows you to point things out on the screen via a very noticeable blue arrow. We usually use it for building missions together and it works that way, I don't see why you couldn't use it to train people as well. I don't know how well it will work in VR though


Edited by Repth
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That would certainly cover the basics. On the one hand, I think the main question would be, how much overhead it causes for the person running DCS and Teamviewer, and maybe an Oculus HMD, at the same time, plus transmitting the steam. On the other hand, it would work in single-player without a server. On the other-other ... hand... how many hands is that now? :huh: an integrated tutor in DCSW would always be on .... *ahem* hand :doh: and could be used on the spur of the moment. No need to download and install new software, configure firewall, etc. Besides, lot's of people are very wary of installing new software, regardless of how innocuous it might be.

 

I think it would ultimately provide a great return on investment for ED, it might even be used for streaming those head-on-head tournies that pop-up every now and again. Imagine the view stream being able to pop into the cockpit of an AC right while it's moving in for the kill. Now that would be excitement :)

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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I still want multicrew Just for the hell of it. I think it would be cool to just share a cockpit with someone. I'd enjoy it a lot, and it would give me a reason to love the TF-51D again.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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I'm at a loss. What exactly can you do with TacView? Becasue I have a TacView advanced license, and I am clueless as to how I can look inside the cockpit of any other AC, beyond the couple basic of instruments you can display, which is basically just the telemetry data in a generic analog display. And how can TacView allow me to point to instruments in the cockpit of another AC? Am I missing something major here?

 

 

http://www.tacview.net/features/advanced/en/ look at "Real-Time Telemetry" and "Instructor Remote Control" for the Advanced version for a description of what you can do with it.

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Thanks for your answer :thumbup:

 

I think we've been talking past each another.

 

It says, "with the possibility of observing the action from outside of the plane". That would certainly be useful for instructing on maneuvering etc, but I've been speaking about teaching somebody to operate the aircraft itself, which all happens from within the cockpit, specifically reading instruments and using controls (switches, etc).

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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  • 8 months later...

Since the cockpit of P-51D is getting an overhaul I suppose the TF-51D will get one too, and when that happens is it possible we'll get multicrew for TF-51D? It could offer new players a look into multicrew. Taking friends for a ride is also fun (yes, I know it's passenger seat only with no controls).

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I wouldn't mind sitting in the back and chilling. I often just park my Stang in the grass and watch other people frolic on the AO server. Sitting in the back would also help me when instructing newbies, so I can see something for myself, instead of relying on just their word

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I wouldn't mind sitting in the back and chilling. I often just park my Stang in the grass and watch other people frolic on the AO server. Sitting in the back would also help me when instructing newbies, so I can see something for myself, instead of relying on just their word

 

I was discussing this very thing with some guys last night. This would be a good thing.

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  • 4 months later...
If anyone finds a mod or anything new about this PLEASE let us know. I give my friends VR Rides for sight seeing and this is something I so hope to see one day.

 

This!! I don't know how it would work for training but I would love to give friends a joyride! I would set up a mission getting chased by a 109 and laugh my ass off as they sat in the back seat in VR " He's on our six! He's on our six!! He's firing!! Ahhh!! We're going dowwwwwwwwwwn!" What a great way that would be to introduce friends to dcs and VR ha ha ha!

ASUS ROG G701VI-XS72K 17.3" - i7 7820HK - GTX 1080 8GB - 32 GB 2666mhz - 512 GB SSD - Win10 Pro 64-Bit - T̶r̶a̶c̶k̶I̶R̶5̶ - Samsung Odyssey HMD!! (Amazing!!) - X56 Rhino HOTAS

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I've tried to do this once. It doesn't really work. Even if you mirror the VR display to your monitor, you only see what your friend sees in VR on your monitor, which makes it practically impossible to fly under the best of conditions --simply flying around sight-seeing-- as opposed to trying to fly combat.

 

To fly a passenger in any DCS aircraft, you first need two PC's capable of running DCS.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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I've tried to do this once. It doesn't really work. Even if you mirror the VR display to your monitor, you only see what your friend sees in VR on your monitor, which makes it practically impossible to fly under the best of conditions --simply flying around sight-seeing-- as opposed to trying to fly combat.

 

To fly a passenger in any DCS aircraft, you first need two PC's capable of running DCS.

 

 

We have 2 pc's and 2 VR setups here :)

ASUS ROG G701VI-XS72K 17.3" - i7 7820HK - GTX 1080 8GB - 32 GB 2666mhz - 512 GB SSD - Win10 Pro 64-Bit - T̶r̶a̶c̶k̶I̶R̶5̶ - Samsung Odyssey HMD!! (Amazing!!) - X56 Rhino HOTAS

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Sweet :D

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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  • 10 months later...

This should be brought back into discussion! Now with the multi-crew capabilities emerging within DCS World, let's talk about making this a reality!

  • Like 1

"There are only two types of aircraft, Fighters and Targets." Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson

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I would love this! I feel it would be the best way for ed to also make money in the future! It would introduce people not only to war birds but also multi crew.

 

I believe that with multi crew operations emerging and more prop aircraft being made that it would be foolish to not capitalize on the theatre and the potential people that it will bring to the sim.

 

The flight model is there already so why not? Ed gets money and we get to fly with our friends and give them the dcs bug, it's a win win!

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