Wishlist: fix the default pilot position like the DCS F-16 Viper

Good morning,

I just tried out the new Viper and the thing that I loved the most is the fact that with the default zoom, the pilot head is indeed resting on the seat headrest and is not pushed forward to the UFC.

This allows to not modify the FOV (= better spotting) and feels more natural all-around. If I turn my head in the cockpit I really am seated and not floating around the center of the cockpit (difficult to explain without images, but you understand).

It would be great if the new reworked DCS A-10C Warthog could feature a similar tweak also.

Thanks

This is possible with a little config file editing. You can edit the file "..\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\SnapViews.lua" to exactly put the default head position and angles (default is looking a bit downwards also) to what you want.

Workarounds and custom implementations...

thanks but no thanks, my wish is for an official ED default implementation.

+1

Ok. I might mention also that you can also do this in-game without config file editing. It's a feature called Snapview Saving. I don't know exactly how it works though, never used it.

I also might mention, that doing what you want, will make most of the HUD elements not visible, you would have to lean forward to see all elements.

I'm aware of these edit functions, but just like OttoPlus I would love to have that as a factory default like it is in the Viper and other aircraft.

Seat position and HUD FOV are also closely related, and I feel like with the upcoming gfx overhaul ED should really optimize this. I'm sure they will!

+1 ! I hope this is being implemented with the coming cockpit update. All the reworked cockpit of the FC3 aircraft as well as the newer stuff like F/A-18 and L-39 have "proper" neck in that the eyepoint is set 5cm forward from the neck. Right now, the eyepoint in the A-10C and neckpoint is the same and when you look around, your HUD is perfectly visible from all head angles, not behaving like a real collimated HUD. Only once you start actually moving your head sideways, does the HUD start behaving correctly and wanders gradually off the HUD glass and out of vision.

Ideally, ED would add a 5cm-ish vertical seperation in addition to a 5cm forward shift to simulate a proper neck in all spatial planes of course!

I'm aware of these edit functions, but just like OttoPlus I would love to have that as a factory default like it is in the Viper and other aircraft.

I don't think they will change it much. As I said above, moving back the default eye-point to where it should be in a "rested" seat position you won't see most of the HUD elements.

If I remember correctly, I've read an official statement in some thread that it was defaulted this way because thats how it is IRL.

If they change this, many will be upset about not being able to see most of the HUD, and they would have to lean into it to do that.

I don't think they will change it much. As I said above, moving back the default eye-point to where it should be in a "rested" seat position you won't see most of the HUD elements.

 

If I remember correctly, I've read an official statement in some thread that it was defaulted this way because thats how it is IRL.

 

If they change this, many will be upset about not being able to see most of the HUD, and they would have to lean into it to do that.

Are you telling me that a real warthog pilot with his/her head in normal position is not able to read the HUD?

Are you telling me that a real warthog pilot with his/her head in normal position is not able to read the HUD?

Yes. Much of the HUD elements would be obscured. I can't say exactly what a pilot could and could not see on the HUD, but they would have to lean forward to be able to see the full HUD.

Just test moving your head back in the sim, as far back as you can, and you'll see that much of the HUD's elements will be outside the HUD glass boundaries.

I'm no SME or have any experience with the real plane, I'm just paraphrasing what others have said in the past and it's apparently how it is IRL.

Yes. Much of the HUD elements would be obscured. I can't say exactly what a pilot could and could not see on the HUD, but they would have to lean forward to be able to see the full HUD.

 

Look I'm no SME or have any first hand experience from the real plane in any way.

I'm just paraphrasing what others have said in the past.

I'm sure ED does have SME... if that's a real aircraft limitation, this "feature" should be also in the sim imho.

Good morning,

I just tried out the new Viper and the thing that I loved the most is the fact that with the default zoom, the pilot head is indeed resting on the seat headrest and is not pushed forward to the UFC.

 

This allows to not modify the FOV (= better spotting) and feels more natural all-around. If I turn my head in the cockpit I really am seated and not floating around the center of the cockpit (difficult to explain without images, but you understand).

 

It would be great if the new reworked DCS A-10C Warthog could feature a similar tweak also.

 

Thanks

I agrees with your the A-10C pilot head position is really horrible, I don't fly it as much because of this problem. I wish they would give this some attention in the upgrade that's coming.

I'm sure ED does have SME... if that's a real aircraft limitation, this "feature" should be also in the sim imho.

Yeah, offcourse they have SME's. I'm guessing they just put the default head position that far forward so us sim users won't have to lean forward in our armchairs all the time. :smartass:

But I DO agree that it feels weird, like you're resting your chin on the dash. But I've also tried moving the default head position back in the seat, and I don't like that either because so much of the HUD get's obscured.

I agrees with your the A-10C pilot head position is really horrible, I don't fly it as much because of this problem. I wish they would give this some attention in the upgrade that's coming.

First thing I do after hopping in the cockpit is adjust the seating position fore/aft and up/down.

Workarounds and custom implementations...

 

thanks but no thanks, my wish is for an official ED default implementation.

The problem with that is, that nobody can seem to agree on how far away they should be from the IP, how much of the HUD they should be able to see, etc. Pages and pages of debate over that, with people showing each other A-10C pilot/plane pictures from oblique angles as "proof" of their opinion, and so on.

If ED made an official position for the pilot, I don't think everybody would be happy with it. Its easy to adjust your position to exactly where you want it, in game, and then save that as your default viewing position. I think the main problem with where your body ends up in relation to the seat in VR is because something is off with the scaling along the longitudinal axis. Seems like the cockpit area is too long.

You are missing the point: it's not about making everyone happy, it's about simulating the real thing and having the right FOV.

Of course I'm talking about the upcoming reworked Warthog, this one will remain as it is I suppose.

This is an important discussion and I've noticed for a while that the A-10 could receive a bit of help in this area. Seat height is very important for A-10 pilots because that is how we keep our visual references for 20, 30, and 45 degree diving deliveries. IRL every pilot will set a 51 mil reference so that the target will be on the rail prior to roll in will achieve a 45 degree dive angle. For 45/30/20 Guns as well as 30/20 bombs there are other references that I can explain later. The best way to set this reference is to make it so the two nuts on the right side of the HUD effectively bisect each other. The nuts are seen here:

https://imgur.com/a/UgIkMEA

In game it would look something like this:

https://imgur.com/a/QhQrxo8

In game I have noticed that no matter how much I adjust the seat or camera to reflect a real life seating position, the HUD is essentially unusable. If anyone is able to get a seating position that is what i'm referencing while also adjusting the FOV so that the HUD is usable?

Habu

You are missing the point: it's not about making everyone happy, it's about simulating the real thing and having the right FOV.

 

Of course I'm talking about the upcoming reworked Warthog, this one will remain as it is I suppose.

No, I'm not missing the point. My point in my post is that everybody has their own idea about what "simulating the real thing" is. Don't like where you're sitting in the jet? Move your position, and save it. Its not that hard.

This is an important discussion and I've noticed for a while that the A-10 could receive a bit of help in this area. Seat height is very important for A-10 pilots because that is how we keep our visual references for 20, 30, and 45 degree diving deliveries. IRL every pilot will set a 51 mil reference so that the target will be on the rail prior to roll in will achieve a 45 degree dive angle. For 45/30/20 Guns as well as 30/20 bombs there are other references that I can explain later. The best way to set this reference is to make it so the two nuts on the right side of the HUD effectively bisect each other. The nuts are seen here:

 

https://imgur.com/a/UgIkMEA

 

 

In game it would look something like this:

 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/QhQrxo8

 

 

In game I have noticed that no matter how much I adjust the seat or camera to reflect a real life seating position, the HUD is essentially unusable. If anyone is able to get a seating position that is what i'm referencing while also adjusting the FOV so that the HUD is usable?

 

 

Habu

Habu, I'll try this on mine and see what it looks like. Right now my HUD is definitely usable, but I can't remember if I have seat height adjusted correctly. Not quite sure I understand what you meant by the nuts on the right side bisecting each other. Are you talking about getting the nut on the top right side of the HUD aligned with the top two screws on the whiskey compass? I think that's what I see in your pic, but just want to be sure.

First thing I do after hopping in the cockpit is adjust the seating position fore/aft and up/down.

Yes, I've tried adjusting the seat, but that seem to obscure the HUD. This is the only aircraft I have this problem with.

Yep, there was always something a little off about the A-10C's tub. I feel child size in the thing in VR. (begging' not to have an IPD discussion)

Maybe its right, Maybe its not - but I too would appreciate if someone that's on the A-10C refurb team take another look at dimensions & default pilot placement.

Habu, I'll try this on mine and see what it looks like. Right now my HUD is definitely usable, but I can't remember if I have seat height adjusted correctly. Not quite sure I understand what you meant by the nuts on the right side bisecting each other. Are you talking about getting the nut on the top right side of the HUD aligned with the top two screws on the whiskey compass? I think that's what I see in your pic, but just want to be sure.

Yeah, to be clear you should adjust the seat and view until you just barely see the top of the uppermost HUD frame. From this view, the two nuts on this frame forward and aft should line up with each other so they are essentially stacked on top of each other.

Habu

Tip regarding seat possition in VR.

Hold down Right Shift and Right ctrl and use the 1-9 numeric keyboard to move your possition..

This work quite good, BUT if you recenter the view during flight you end up

back in the old possition.

( it would be nice if the above adjustment became the new default vr view and the game remember your last known possition or at least do so during an entire flight so you can reset the vr view back to the one you manualy selected ).

This is an important discussion and I've noticed for a while that the A-10 could receive a bit of help in this area. Seat height is very important for A-10 pilots because...

The best way to set this reference is to make it so the two nuts on the right side of the HUD effectively bisect each other. The nuts are seen here:

 

In game I have noticed that no matter how much I adjust the seat or camera to reflect a real life seating position, the HUD is essentially unusable. If anyone is able to get a seating position that is what i'm referencing while also adjusting the FOV so that the HUD is usable?

 

Habu

Just tried your method of lining up the two reference points on the right top of the HUD frame. (using VR) I adjust my vertical height, so that the top of the two nuts appear level. I find the top approx. 1/3 of the HUD is out of view. In order to get full HUD in view I have to lean head forward and down.