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Which to buy?


Europa

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Maybe you find my question as dumb. But I will appreciate if I can pick your thougts.

 

I am new to DCS and I am a huge fan of WW2 airplanes. I recently bought normandy map pack and I own the P51. Now I want to buy another ww2 plane. I can't make my mind with my tight budget. I am going to buy one more airplane. I wish I could test them but there is no demo version so please help me to decide. Please dont get confused I am not asking which one is a better fighter I am asking in the terms of flight modeling and level of details.

 

Fw190 or Bf190 or the Spit?

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I have all four WWII planes, and I feel they are all well modeled (minus some DM bugs that should get addressed when the new DM is released). I think it comes down to how you want to fly. The Spit is a good TnB plane, but is the slowest of all four. The Dora is the best BnZ plane, has modern features (for a WWII plane) such as lead computing sight. The 109 is probably the most well rounded plane amongst them. Turns much better than the Dora, though not as well as the Spit, but has good power.

 

If you're looking for a challenge I would recommend the Dora. It's a great plane but it's hard to master. It does have the most glaring DM problem, as it's not uncommon for a single shot to take out it's engine though.

 

My personal favorite is the 109. It's trickier for takeoffs and landings, but not too hard to get used to. But in the sky its a joy to fly and fight with.

 

The Spit is a good plane, but the lack of power can be off putting and it's a handful on the ground. I've spent the least time with it, though, so maybe someone who has plenty of time in it could offer a better opinion.

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My vote would be for the Fw 190.

 

In my opinion, the big difference between the modeling of the three is cooling. The Spit overheats excessively, the 109 is near impossible to overheat. The 190 offers the more credible operating experience.

 

This could all change once the cooling systems change with the new damage model.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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The P51 is the best starting point and so skills learnt will transfer over well to any of the other three which are (in my opinion) slightly trickier to get to grips with.

 

As others have said, all are very good, so don't think you'd be disappointed with any of them.

 

I'd personally recommend the 109 as your second plane as it is a suburb all round performer and seems to be the easiest to fly (after the mustang) in a wide range of situations. Take offs and landings can be difficult at first, but become quite easy (and extremely satisfying) with practice. You will notice that after quite a bit of time in the 109, you will easily nail take-offs and landings in the mustang! Nose cannon has a low rate of fire and not much ammo for A2A combat (but very effective when timed right), but is very effective in A2G strafing runs.

 

Spitfire is a joy to fly and would recommend that as a close third plane. It does take a bit longer (at least it did for me!) to adapt to the ground handling (as it is the only one without a tail wheel lock) and engine over heating (if flying too slow with high boost and revs), but once you go through that learning curve it is not a problem. Currently, there are no external stores (bombs or rockets) for ground attack (but I think these may be coming eventually?). I've been really enjoying the Epsom campaign in this aircraft, it feels very authentic.

 

I like the FW190 a lot, but struggle with it at times with it in combat. It feels very powerful and fast, but bites if you get too aggressive or slow (probably just my lack of skill and too much time in the 109 and Spitfire). I also find that unless I get a kill quickly (which seldom happens lol), I spend a lot of time running away from fights so I can re-engage under more favorable conditions. This results in a cycle that tends to result in a long drawn out combat which I personally don't find as much fun compared to the other planes.

 

Hope that helps.

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I have flown real aircraft... somewhere between 20 and 50 hours (unlogged) in Cessnas and Pipers. The Bf109 is the one aircraft in the entire DCS plane set that gives me the illusion of flying despite not having a force feedback stick. The landings and takeoffs are incredibly difficult (the opposite of Cessnas and Pipers), but in the air its stability and response to control inputs just "feels" right. So, whether or not it replicates the behavior of the real Bf109, it is one of my favorite DCS aircraft to just fly around punching holes in the sky. It is also a super lethal fighter, way better than any other DCS WW2 fighter in power and maneuverability.

 

 

But if you have the money, I suggest getting all of the DCS WW2 aircraft. Each one has unique qualities that make them "feel" very different in basic handling and in dogfights.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I have the P51D, Bf 109 and FW 190. (I'm waiting for the Spit to get external stores before I get it.) Of the ones I have though, I spend by far the most time in the 109, because I enjoy it so much. Ground handling, takeoffs and landings are all tricky -- which is good, as it was supposedly like that historically. But in the air it is really nice... sort of "intuitive" somehow. The 109 also has some stores (e.g. you can take an SC250 bomb for ground attack), and the systems and avionics are enough to be interesting, without being overwhelming. The 109 also has that older, classier-looking airframe (although I concede this is personal taste!).

 

The P51D and FW 190 are also good, but the Bf 109 is by far my favourite.

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Wow thats a lot of valuable information for me. Thank you all so much for your answers. It seems to me that everybody agrees on Bf109 which is the perfect match what I have in heart as I usually fly Bf109's in other sims. %80 percent. Actually my favorite WW2 airplane is the Fw190 but it is tricky in dogfights. You cant jump in to a dogfight with Fw190 unless the odds are on your favour. This makes Bf109 more playful which makes sense that I find myself flying the Bf109 %80 percent.

Though I admire the beauty of the Spitfire but I never favor it in a dogfight (personal taste).

 

With your help here is how I arranged my shopping list.

1. Bf109 (More common and my default never go wrong fighter)

2. Fw190 (Personal favorite, excellent roll rates make it a unique fighter for whom to be able to master)

3. Spitfire (A legendary beauty, +has the Epsom compaign to spice up)

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As other say, it depends on your experience to the day with the Ponny but Spit and 109 are indeed quite tough subjects. Not necessarily that's bad but a sensible learning curve would probably be the Dora, a great model no matter what, a good match to the P-51, and easier to tame. AS with time you'd probably buy all of them you'll be ready to go with the next one with more experience.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I also own all WWII fighters, but my vote goes to the Spit. The FM is superb and it’s a very rewarding plane to fly when you fly her correctly. In my experience it forces you to fly the way it’s supposed. Ground handling is a personal tast i have to say, since i enjoy it the most in the Spit. I fly Cessna IRL and i have a very authentic feeling in the spit even without force feedback - basically what the 109 offers to streakeagle. In the end, everything is highly subjective. With the spit i have to suggest a joystick with an extension. Without it feels a bit to touchy on the elevator controls without adjusting the axis curve of your stick.

 

Cheers an have fun with the props ;-)

Main Module: AH-64D

Personal Wishlist: HH-60G, F-117A, B-52H

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I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?


Edited by Europa
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OP is a difficult question because individuals sometimes throw out a plane based on something unique to it, for example the 109 is quite uncomfortable on the grip flying at an odd speed it's not trimmed for because you have to wrestle with it's stick more and it doesn't fly hands off. P51 can be very comfortable, it can trim out almost perfectly. You have PvP considerations, flight characteristics, features, damage modelling current and future. I see the 190 is a favourite, I like it less because of the high wheel base and the automation, it's like a BMW car. 190 is the one I kept going back to of all four, over my lifelong favourite Spitfire, because of it's power, the cannon and it's feature and interesting engine governer, especially the manual setting which makes it quite awesome to "tune" and gives a very advanced feeling of interaction. The flare gun can be super useful too.

All the modules are not easily comparable from a deeper view, which is good, because you will find new things, but I'll just leave this here:

Me-109.

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?

 

It is intended and modelled as the real aircraft. Pls, read the following post by Yo-yo (or the whole thread: it's interesting)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3380052&postcount=14

 

Plus, I'm still learning to fly it, but with the correct cruise power I find it comfortably flyable with +1 trim.

 

EDIT:

The manual gives different values for Cruise power settings:

- At page 112 (Operating data) it reads:

Cruise Parameters (with climb and combat power):

RPM (auto prop pitch): 2,550 – 2,600

Boost pressure (auto prop pitch): 1.45 ATA

 

- At page 132 (Standard procedure - Cruise) it reads:

Optimal Cruise Speed: 420 km/h TAS

RPM (auto prop pitch): 2,550 – 2,600

Boost pressure (auto prop pitch): 1.35 ATA

 

- At page 131 it reads:

Set RPM and Supercharger Pressure to Cruise setting (2,400 ± 65, RPM at 1.25 ATA)

 

Personally I find this last setup the most handling one

 

- Moreover at page 139 (Landing procedure):

Use the Horizontal Stabilizer Trim Handwheel to trim the aircraft for level flight in the flaps-down configuration. Rough guideline is around the -3 position.

 

She becomes very nose-heavy with landing gear extended and flaps down, therefore the "tail-heavy" characteristic you told becomes very handy during landing.


Edited by Andryl

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I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?
That's how she is supposed to be. Beyond 450-500 Km/H there is no trim in order to allow high speed dives recovery. Anyway, cruising @1.15Ata will help flying hands off @450Km/H and you have a tab in the options with ailerons and tail fixed trim tabs settings.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Hi Europa. The plane is indeed tail heavy, and while it is more than manageable, it will never be a hands off plane. Even in cruise flight, the best you can expect is to require "minimal" input to maintain stable flight.

 

As you are new to the plane, I am going to assume, however, that your concern with trim is related less to cruise flight, and more to the aircrafts behavior when rotating out of the takeoff roll. As I recall from when I was learning the plane, my initial attempts were, to put it mildly, a struggle. It was not uncommon for me to takeoff, immediately stall a wing, and either bury myself in the dirt, or at best make a very ugly and uncoordinated maneuver that allowed me to get airborne (sometimes after sustaining some landing gear damage from smacking it into the ground).

 

Things I learned were:

 

1. I set trim to full nose down. I pull fully back on stick and slightly right stick it and give full right rudder before even starting my roll.

 

2. Do not takeoff under full power. I evolved to where I now start my roll around 1.2 ata, and once rolling I push that up to 1.35-1.4 ata.

 

3. Once she's rolling and I'm at 1.35-1.4 ata, my focus is almost entirely on managing the turn and bank needle. The sooner you counter any departure there, the easier it is to keep her straight. I'll also release the stick pull back once she's gaining speed and rudder authority.

 

4. Once up to speed, be ready on the stick. She will fly herself off the runway, and it this point I'm ready to manager her with some small stick pressure as necessary to keep her from any tendency to pitch up.

 

5. I find giving her a slight kick of forward stick to raise the tailwheel prior to takeoff allows her to gain more speed before rotating, which minimizes the stick effort needed as she goes airborne.

 

There are a number of great videos online that I learned from when I was getting my hands around this plane, and I highly recommend them as they show procedures way better than I could manage to describe.

 

Hope this helps.

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That's how she is supposed to be. Beyond 450-500 Km/H there is no trim in order to allow high speed dives recovery. Anyway, cruising @1.15Ata will help flying hands off @450Km/H and you have a tab in the options with ailerons and tail fixed trim tabs settings.

 

 

S!

This (well, maybe not completely hands off, but very light inputs needed)

 

Hi Europa. The plane is indeed tail heavy, and while it is more than manageable, it will never be a hands off plane. Even in cruise flight, the best you can expect is to require "minimal" input to maintain stable flight.

 

As you are new to the plane, I am going to assume, however, that your concern with trim is related less to cruise flight, and more to the aircrafts behavior when rotating out of the takeoff roll. As I recall from when I was learning the plane, my initial attempts were, to put it mildly, a struggle. It was not uncommon for me to takeoff, immediately stall a wing, and either bury myself in the dirt, or at best make a very ugly and uncoordinated maneuver that allowed me to get airborne (sometimes after sustaining some landing gear damage from smacking it into the ground).

 

Things I learned were:

...

 

 

Since some time ago, I found it so difficult to manage during take offs and landings, that I started to think: "I'll never manage to tame her!"

But after I found a post of Ala13_ManOWar that linked the following article:

http://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

 

I read it, plus three essays:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179253

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179314

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179455

 

And everything changed. I cannot recommend enough them: there are really tons of precious hints.

Now I'm starting to love the Bf-109 and to find her very rewarding.

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This (well, maybe not completely hands off, but very light inputs needed)
Well, you're right, any prop driven aircraft will be absolutely hands off, but one can have some spare time from time to time in the piloting task with a good enough trimming and engine setting is what I meant :) .

 

 

Glad to be any helpful mate :thumbup:.

 

 

With regards to the trimming, take a look at the gorgeous pics in the article,

 

http://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

 

You'll see how despite being flying relatively slow to catch the leading aircraft for the pics, the stabiliser (which is marked with lines in the root) is almost in full nose heavy trim in several pics. And that's an Emil, not a 1800HP K4…

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 11 months later...

Gonna hijack the thread here :smilewink:

 

I am not asking you to compare the planes. I like every single one of these glorious fighters. Instead, I'd like to know what differences, if any, there are between the 4 modules.

 

Some of them are quite old by now, some are still new-ish. I've heard they've all been updated to the current DCS standards but the information is sparse.

 

Is any one of them heavier on the framerate than the others ? Is any one of them graphically superior, especially in the cockpit ? Are sounds modeled significantly better (or worse) on any one of the 4 modules ? Is any of them known to be buggy ?

 

I know the simple solution is to get them all, but obviously at $50 each I want to make sure I get the most of any addon I get and not buy more than I can fly the living crap out of :lol: I think 1 German and 1 Western fighter is a good compromise.

 

So, which ones are the ones I should go for ?

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Gonna hijack the thread here :smilewink:

 

I am not asking you to compare the planes. I like every single one of these glorious fighters. Instead, I'd like to know what differences, if any, there are between the 4 modules.

 

Some of them are quite old by now, some are still new-ish. I've heard they've all been updated to the current DCS standards but the information is sparse.

 

Is any one of them heavier on the framerate than the others ? Is any one of them graphically superior, especially in the cockpit ? Are sounds modeled significantly better (or worse) on any one of the 4 modules ? Is any of them known to be buggy ?

 

I know the simple solution is to get them all, but obviously at $50 each I want to make sure I get the most of any addon I get and not buy more than I can fly the living crap out of :lol: I think 1 German and 1 Western fighter is a good compromise.

 

So, which ones are the ones I should go for ?

first i would advice you to wait for discount and then buy them all

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Sound design is overall awesome all across WWII modules. The P-51 and Spitfire are my favourites in that regard. The framerate is roughly the same for all WWII aircraft and they are more or less all bug-free.

 

The P-51 just got a cockpit overhaul and I think it looks great, just as good as the Spitfire (which is IMHO the prettiest WWII cockpit in DCS at the moment).

 

As someone who has flown all DCS WWII modules for hours and hours... my two main choices would be the P-51 and the Spitfire.

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Cool. Seems like they're all good enough.

 

I might buy the Spitfire but wait for the new FW 190. First of all because it'll be appropriate for the Normandy map and secondly, I just realized there are no campaigns included with the current German planes or any available to buy. Kind of a deal breaker for me. Hopefully the A-8 gets at least one campaign.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm probably a little late here but anyhow. It mostly deoends on what you are going to be doing. If you like to fly air to air combat online then I would say go for the 109 or the spit 9. Both engines are reliable and both the best fighter on its respective side. The 109 if you want to be untouchable in PVP combat. If you like to fly high and hit and run then both the P 51D and FW190 are good. FW190 is better because it can escape all its enemies atm(fast and good climb rate). The P 51D is a good match vs the dora but suffers badly vs the 109k4. Though the P 51D is the best ground attack prop plane at the moment. The P 51D is also the most pleasant to fly with great visibility.

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