Dave's World – A WWII pit

Ian;2775395']When sending a PM on these boards' date=' there is a [i']Save a copy of this message in your Sent Items folder[/i] checkbox, which defaults to off.

 

You might want to go to User CP / Edit Options and check Save a copy of sent messages in my Sent Items folder by default in the "Private Messaging" category.

Thanks Ian. S!

I'm Back...visual system update

Wow, I'm a bit shocked that it's been over a year since my last post. I decided to make a small business with the I/O system I have been developing and that has gobbled up all my time. I still have a lot of work to do on that front but I'm far enough along that I have started giving the weekends back to myself.

I'm working on a few things in parallel, but the primary goal is to finish the visual system. I'm still designing a 180 degree, 8 foot diameter curved screen, but the design of the screen has changed a bit. This design is less complicated and takes up less floor space. The screen will be in three sections that bolt together. This weekend I made a prototype of the first section. It came out pretty good so next is to build two more just like it. I haven't attached the screen material yet so what you see in the pics is just the backer board.

Oh yea, I finally broke down and ordered some nice rudder pedals. I ordered the Baur Brd pedals. I a lot of people here have recommended them and they look really nice. They should ship some time in July. I'm pretty excited about that. (I'm not sure I will admit to the wife how much they cost.)

Two Down, One to Go...

I finished the second of three sections. They fit together pretty well. With two sections clamped together, the screen is becoming quite stable. The third section should make it nice and solid. Overall I'm happy with it. I think the seams will be small enough not to be noticeable. I added a couple of handles to each section. Each section is just heavy enough that one out of shape person can move it around relatively easily. In the pictures I have clamps holding the two sections together, but the final plan is to bolt them together. One more section to build, then I'll do final fitting between the sections, drill holes for the bolts and add the screen material.

My rudder pedals have shipped about a week earlier than predicted by Baur. Of course I'm watching the tracking. They've left mother Russia but not shown up in the U.S. yet. I'm pretty excited about them. I think it will be a world of difference from my current set up which uses the twist grip of the stick as rudder control.

Hello fbfan64,

very good work. The construction type is a little bit similar to mine. I also tought about to use white paper for the projection area, but for me it is too glarish. So my screen has still the natural colour of the wood, because I can´t decide which surface I will use.

What do you think about this?

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3583

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_(paint_mix)#A_very_brief_history_of_DIY_painted_screens_and_some_of_the_more_popular_methods_and_mindsets

Hi Uli,

Your screen looks nice. It's a bit bigger than mine I think. Mine is 8 feet diameter with just under 180 degrees wrap. I would rather go bigger, but it's the biggest I could fit into the room where my wife agreed to let me have the sim!

I looked into some paint products. I saw some people have great results. After reading up on it, I was a little nervous if I have the skills necessary to make it come out right. :music_whistling: This is the main reason I decided to go with the material from Carl's place, but I haven't bought anything yet.

I still have a sample piece of white and gray taped to my wall so when I fly I can compare the two. I only have one small window with a blackout shade so I am leaning towards getting a brighter picture from the white screen. The gray screen looks better/brighter in a room with some ambient light but if I close the shade the white screen really pops.

Dave.

Rudder Pedals

My BRD rudder pedals arrived early from Baur so I took a break from the projection screen this weekend to assemble and test the new rudder pedals. Google translate butchered some of the assembly instructions but the detailed pictures saved the day. All-in-all a good experience. I am really happy with the pedals.

I installed the damper to get a better feel than just the spring. I'm glad I did. It makes a pretty big difference. Using them without being attached to the floor is almost impossible because of the force it takes to move the pedals. I'll have to find some time to make a temporary floor for the pit so I can use them.

Hi Uli

as a white background you could try curtain blackout material. It comes on a roll 1500mm wide. I use it for my 3 projector curved screen. Works well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackout-Thermal-Curtain-Pandoras-Upholstery/dp/B01H2SY1UM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1501185384&sr=8-7&keywords=curtain+blackout+lining

Neal

Hello Neal,

thank you for your effort. I will think about it.

Projector Screen Assembled

This weekend, I finished building the third section for the projection screen. I bolted all three sections together and did a little sanding to improve the fit around the seams. It's not perfect but I think it will do. The seams are going to be the weak point (visually) but I wanted to be able to disassemble it. Next I will order the screen material to be glued to the backer board. Almost time to try it out...:joystick:

Do you have any plans to try out 3D glasses if your projector supports it?

This weekend, I finished building the third section for the projection screen. I bolted all three sections together and did a little sanding to improve the fit around the seams. It's not perfect but I think it will do. The seams are going to be the weak point (visually) but I wanted to be able to disassemble it. Next I will order the screen material to be glued to the backer board. Almost time to try it out...:joystick:

 

If you want it to be moveable and are concerned about the seams, couldn't use Velcro to roll the screen in one piece over all 3 pieces of back board?

Do you have any plans to try out 3D glasses if your projector supports it?

Interesting. I never thought of that. Currently I have BenQ 1080 which I don't think supports 3D, but if I upgrade the projectors that might be a neat idea. Does DCS support 3D?

If you want it to be moveable and are concerned about the seams, couldn't use Velcro to roll the screen in one piece over all 3 pieces of back board?

I like that idea. :thumbup: The seams have always worried me but I won't give up on making it come apart. I need to think it through to see how I could keep it smooth across the screen. I wouldn't want the Velcro strips to make lumps in the screen. Maybe some additional material between the rows of Velcro that take up the extra space...

There are a lot of great ideas from people on this forum. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to offer one up.

Interesting. I never thought of that. Currently I have BenQ 1080 which I don't think supports 3D, but if I upgrade the projectors that might be a neat idea. Does DCS support 3D?

Yeah, I believe there is a built-in STEREO option when you select the type of monitor lay out you have. Also, there was a guy in Australia (could be NZ) that made simulators with 3D projectors.

I'm pretty sure it was in this subthread.

Projector Screen Complete

With the screen material attached, the screen is finally finished. I took Mr. Burns' advice and used velcro so I could use a single seamless piece of material. That was a good decision. I like it very much with no seams.

I went with Pro White material from Carl's Place. It doesn't require stretching to a frame and it's just thick enough to handle. (More on handling later.) I have enough control of ambient light in the room that the white material looks good.

I wanted to put some padding behind the screen material that was about the same thickness as the velcro to minimize the amount of flexing or movement of the screen surface. I found some craft foam sheets that are 2 mm thick. The velcro is about 3 mm thick when pressed together. Now that the screen material is up, I'm glad I did that. There is some movement that is minimized by the padding. It would be better if the pad was a bit thicker but it's OK the way it is.

I attached the padding and the velcro to the backer board using 3M Super 77 spray glue. I was a little worried about how well the velcro would stick to the board and I needed to spray glue the foam anyway, so I glued it all. As it turns out, the industrial strength velcro would probably have stuck well enough without the spray glue, but as I said, I had to spray most of the surface anyway for the foam sheets. It's only been a day, but there is no sign of the velcro coming loose. While putting the screen material in place, I had to pull it off several times and the velcro never came loose so that's a win.

The last thing worth mentioning is the application of the screen material. My idea was to attach the velcro to the back of the screen, roll it up, then unroll it onto the backer board. It is easier said than done. With my wife helping me it took several tries to get it up even, level, and with minimal wrinkles or sags. During the process you have to be extremely careful not to put any creases into the screen material. In the end, it came out what I would call “acceptable”. In the bright lights, looking at the bare screen, I can see some imperfections, but with the projector showing an image I can't see the imperfections. If I were designing again from scratch, I would think about how to unroll the material onto the backer board in a better way. Maybe find a way to let gravity help me rather than fight me.

All-in-all I'm very pleased with how it came out. Next step is to mount the projectors so I can actually use the screen.:pilotfly:

The Projectors are In!

I bought my projectors so long ago, I was beginning to think they would never see a mount any more permanent than the top of a dresser. Well I finally got them mounted and got my first look at the screen with a wrap around image. :D

The mount is a simple arrangement using scrap wood I had in the shop. Maybe I'll stain it or paint it later. The only modification I had to make to the room was to raise the fan about 6”. Luckily that mod was wife-approved. :thumbup:

I spent about a day and a half using Immersive Display Pro warping software to get the image aligned. It's not as bad as it sounds. I aligned it about 3 or 4 times during that time. You learn things as you go like don't touch the projectors after you've started alignment! :doh: For me the key was finding a youtube video with step by step instructions. While the user manual seems complete, it's just not written to be an instruction set. Another thing I learned is that it's not about getting the single correct solution to your alignment. It's about making adjustments until everything balances.

I'm happy enough with the software that I will probably buy it to get rid of the nag-ware message on the screen. I'm aware of the other big guys (Nthusim and Warpalizer). I'm sure they are good software but they cost about twice as much so I will probably stick with Immersive Display Pro since it looks like it will do what I want. I still have some more work to do as I don't have the edge blending as good as I want just yet. But my experience so far has been that if no one touches the projectors, it will keep the alignment OK.

Even with the alignment not blended correctly, flying with this wrap around image makes a world of difference! I got those small waves of uneasiness if I banked too hard. It came quite natural to just look to the left instead of trying to click the top hat just the right amount. :pilotfly:

You can just see my BRD rudder pedals in one of the pictures. My KG-13 grip is on the way from Russia. Next step will be to get the flight stick mounted.

I spent about a day and a half using Immersive Display Pro warping software to get the image aligned. It's not as bad as it sounds.

Hey, fbfan64.

Would Immersive Display Pro work for eliminating image warping using a single projector on a curved screen?

Hey, fbfan64.

 

Would Immersive Display Pro work for eliminating image warping using a single projector on a curved screen?

I think it would work although I haven't specifically tried it. They have a trial version you can download to see if it works for you. It works for 30 days (IIRC) and puts a watermark on the screen.

Screen Update

Wow, work is keeping me crazy busy but here's a quick update on how the screen is working out for me now that I've used it a bit.

As far as performance, it looks great and is quite immersive. Two areas I need to address though.

The Velcro strips are coming loose from the back board. Although at first the self adhesive was quite sticky, after a few months it started to come loose. I glued a section of it using super glue gel and am watching to see how it holds up.

The projector mounts move just very small amounts, but it is enough that from one session to another I often have to do small re-alignment in the Immersive Display warping software. It only takes a few minutes but I need to look for a way to make the mounts more stable.

Progress on the Main Instrument Panel

As you may remember, my pit will be loosely based around the P-51. I modeled the main instrument panel from aircraft drawings (shout out to http://www.aircorpslibrary.com ) then made a cut pattern for CNC. I started with a piece of 7/16” thick black plastic and ended up with this.

The CNC left a few hairy bits. Maybe I don't have the right spindle speed for this material. I cleaned some of it up with a knife. Most of it will be covered by instrument bezels anyway so I'm not going to obsess over it. The next pic below is with the gauges installed for a test fit.

Next I will make the mounting plates for the artificial horizon and directional gyro. Then the yellow outline for the primary flight instruments and it should be just about complete. (Except that none of the instruments work yet! :joystick:)

Nice work !!!:thumbup:

MIP Update

This weekend, I cut the mounting plates for the artificial horizon and directional gyro. I cut the mounting plates out of 1/4” HDPE plastic. These cuts came out a lot cleaner than the MIP. Maybe my1/8” mill is sharper than my 1/4” mill that I used to cut out the MIP. The hole for the horizon is a bit big. I mixed up “inside left” and “outside right” on the CNC. It fits but I may cut another one with the proper size hole. I ran out of screws so the gauges aren't properly mounted yet. More screws on order, along with yellow tape to outline the primary flight instruments. Then I'll build some legs to temporarily mount it in front of my stick so I can fly as I start making the gauges work.

Main Instrument Panel Mock-up

I finished the MIP with yellow tape and some temporary stands. The yellow tape shrunk after I applied it so now there are gaps between the pieces. I may redo that but for now it's good enough. With this setup, I can begin to see how all the pieces should be in relation to each other. For example, the stick sits about 2 to 4 inches too high. Next step: start getting the gauges functional.

wife-approved. :thumbup:

how did you get the whole construction to wife-approval? :noexpression:

how big is the construction itself for the projectors and image frame?

is it movable or fixed in a "dedicated simulator room"?

how did you get the whole construction to wife-approval? :noexpression:

Still not sure how I got that one approved. :music_whistling: I decided "if I don't ask, I won't get". So I asked and she said OK.

how big is the construction itself for the projectors and image frame?

The frame is a diameter of 8 feet and 7 feet tall. The screen is 64 inches tall. In retrospect, I would not mount the screen right at the top of the frame. I would mount it a few inches lower (maybe 6 or 8 inches). This would give a steeper down angle for the projectors, reducing shadows cause by the front of the pit.

is it movable or fixed in a "dedicated simulator room"?

It is movable, but I wouldn't call it portable. It is constructed in three sections that are bolted together. Each section is about 48 inches wide by 7 feet tall. The screen material is a single piece, held on with Velcro. So it can be moved to another room by pulling off the screen and unbolting the three sections.