Post your TACVIEW dogfights.. Help us become better

Another tip, if you are so sick of fighting and losing to the P51D ai right now, try to set up a mission with the L39ZA instead - they are much much easier to take down. You out turn and out accelerate them pretty quickly.

Hey Recoilfx,

Whether the 51 AI is in our good books or our bad books - that sounds fun:D

try to set up a mission with the L39ZA instead

Why should someone do that?

It is not in our responsibility to provide us with a capable opponent.

Especially as the L39ZA as an opponent comes down on clay pigeon shooting.

The current AI has to be revised asap!

We payed a lot of money.

I think we were expecting not only a good simulation of the P-51, but also a reasonable programmed AI.

3 pgs and not one TACVIEW post eh? Nice!

3 pgs and not one TACVIEW post eh? Nice!

Maybe you should be more thorough??

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1664746&postcount=17

Why should someone do that?

It is not in our responsibility to provide us with a capable opponent.

Especially as the L39ZA as an opponent comes down on clay pigeon shooting.

The current AI has to be revised asap!

We payed a lot of money.

I think we were expecting not only a good simulation of the P-51, but also a reasonable programmed AI.

Wa? Never said anything about AI shouldn't be fixed - my point was simply if the p51 AI seems too hard right now, don't be discouraged, shoot other easier planes for a change...

Thanks for that recoil. However, I disagree with shooting first to ward off the AI. He'll always shoot from a head-on. This is my attempt to learn the AI tricks. I've unarmed him from the editor. I know its not much, but here is how AI acts:

 

Nope, during a head on, if you shoot at him first, he won't shoot at you for that merge . This is how I defeat the AI every time, you can see it in the tracks I've posted. Of course, your shots must be relatively close to him.

Also:

The AI first shoots whenever you are at 1.0 G

That means you must constantly turn and burn.

1G is pretty off, AI will shoot at you even you are pulling 2-3G, or else they won't be able to take snap shots at you during scissors. Rolling + pulling seems to be effective at preventing them shooting though.

3 pgs and not one TACVIEW post eh? Nice!

See: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1662489&postcount=13

The Tacview track is the zip file, since we are not allowed to upload an actual TACview file.

Wa? Never said anything about AI shouldn't be fixed - my point was simply if the p51 AI seems too hard right now, don't be discouraged, shoot other easier planes for a change...

I can shoot the AI down. I got 50 kills until now.

The thing is: the AI plays in some kind of - I'm tempted to say: arcade style.

Not one real pilot would be able to pull these stunts on and on.

Propably a really, really damn good pilot could fly like this. But not all the time.

And the "climb-till-stall" maneuvers are simply unrealistic.

That alone would be ok.

It would keep you on your toes and you are forced to learn how to cope with the plane right on the razor's edge.

It is not the main problem imo.

The main problem is that the AI can take too much damage.

And the player can take barely one bullet without several failures.

I once caught one round and had one dozen failures...

That is very frustrating.

My brother watched me struggling with that AI - and after a while he laughed and said:

"It looks like this AI is programmed to piss off the player."

Ok, sorry I don't want to take over Bill's thread with my lamentations.

Back to the topic. ;)

I can shoot the AI down. I got 50 kills until now.

 

The thing is: the AI plays in some kind of - I'm tempted to say: arcade style.

Not one real pilot would be able to pull these stunts on and on.

Propably a really, really damn good pilot could fly like this. But not all the time.

And the "climb-till-stall" maneuvers are simply unrealistic.

 

That alone would be ok.

It would keep you on your toes and you are forced to learn how to cope with the plane right on the razor's edge.

 

It is not the main problem imo.

The main problem is that the AI can take too much damage.

And the player can take barely one bullet without several failures.

I once caught one round and had one dozen failures...

That is very frustrating.

 

My brother watched me struggling with that AI - and after a while he laughed and said:

"It looks like this AI is programmed to piss off the player."

 

Ok, sorry I don't want to take over Bill's thread with my lamentations.

Back to the topic. ;)

Hell no, man!!! I like how you described it. But I agree that despite AI needs touch up, it does help with developing those envelope reflexes. As an addendum, I just purchased A2A's P-51, and that is because I'm developing special interest for mastering the Mustang, at least sim wise. Learning to fly that bird is the top priority, and with time, gunnery skills come with coordination.

Ideally, an AI set to "average" should make grievous mistakes such as spinning out, overheating, blacking out and augering into the ground for no apparent reason. You know, like the mistakes i regularly make.

Totally agree about the damage model as well. Seems our bullets have about 1/50th the destructive power as do the AI's golden BB's.

Wa? Never said anything about AI shouldn't be fixed - my point was simply if the p51 AI seems too hard right now, don't be discouraged, shoot other easier planes for a change...

The early beta AI is really difficult to fight with. But it is much easier now.

Maybe you should be more thorough??

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1664746&postcount=17

^^ What exactly is the point of your thread if this is already here?

^^ What exactly is the point of your thread if this is already here?

The point is, to see other people getting their fix from schwhacking the AI. To see how they do it. Maybe your next reply will be ->why not look in "Show me your mad dogfighting skills" thread?<-

to that, I give you a facepalm.

The point is, to see other people getting their fix from schwhacking the AI. To see how they do it. Maybe your next reply will be ->why not look in "Show me your mad dogfighting skills" thread?<-.

Have you seen anyone schwack the AI in this thread? So why not look in "Show me your mad dogfighting skills" thread :lol: :doh:

After a lengthy discussion, the idea of an enemy engaging or continuing to engage without ammo makes more sense to me. As well I did research a little and there are instances of WWII pilots remaining engaged when unable to fire as a better defense than trying to turn and run. So it would seem that if forced to fight, or at a range that wouldnt allow you to bug out safely, it makes sense to continue the engagement until your enemy expended his ammo, fuel, or luck. This being a 1 on 1 fight.

 

On a fight involving more planes, its obvious you would stay with your flight until the fight was over, not leaving your wingman.

 

Only issue left for me right now is the AI continuing to look for a fight without ammo and not RTB, but for the sake of this thread, not an important discussion to get into.

 

So its not a bug, but intentional defensive tactic, although it would be cool in the future for choices to be made by skill level, as in the lowest skill might try to bug out with no ammo.

Yeah I've heard of this being done in actual one on one fights before - It makes a lot of sense to bluff for the time, (and the opportunity) to, all being well, zoom away to fight another day.

As a pure training mode what Bill suggests would work well I think - I'd have used it to practise at the start had I thought of it. Complete freedom to work out the do's and don'ts of the engine. Develop manoeuvring technique, tactics and limitations - if it's pure training I'd be less concerned with the realism of it.

In terms of general AI behaviour it would be good if the lower levels did indeed make some more foolish moves like just running away as you say when they run out of fireworks, or just losing contact when they shouldn't and speed stalls etc. But that's moving into another topic.

Have you seen anyone schwack the AI in this thread? So why not look in "Show me your mad dogfighting skills" thread :lol: :doh:

Mate, why don't you do something useful like "show us your mad dogfighting skills"? :smartass:

That wouldn't be fair to you. :thumbup:

That wouldn't be fair to you. :thumbup:

really? I didn't know...

Nope, during a head on, if you shoot at him first, he won't shoot at you for that merge . This is how I defeat the AI every time, you can see it in the tracks I've posted. Of course, your shots must be relatively close to him.

 

Also:

 

 

1G is pretty off, AI will shoot at you even you are pulling 2-3G, or else they won't be able to take snap shots at you during scissors. Rolling + pulling seems to be effective at preventing them shooting though.

Agree to disagree. If you come in shooting at him, his accuracy will become your regret in under 30 seconds. Bastard always shoots the engine or fuel lines and you end up with a fluctuation of MP/RPM or at the very worst, a propeller cease, or even a power failure. Power is very serious business in this aircraft.