SD-10 nerfed too much

Can you describe in more detail what happens?

 

 

I have found that the closer the shot, the more likely it is to fall short of the target.

i shared a tacview data Tiger can u check them

I think this speaks for itself.

Missile goes dead at the highlighted time index (69 seconds after launch).

This one is even weirder.

There is no relationship between missile trajectory and aerodynamics. None.

The missile continues to fly after it bled all speed and should be falling out the sky.

The missile eventually goes dead at the highlighted time index.

There is little wonder why the missiles are not achieving the expected range, or even the expected behavior.

Again, maneuvering has zero effect on energy, and neither does climbing or descending. In this case, descending actually helps the missile bleed energy.

i shared a tacview data Tiger can u check them

See my posts above. :)

See my posts above. :)

i dont know what they did to the missile but something is not right the missile according to radar scope launched near to no escape zone 27nm at angle 30 is near to no escape zone and missile is doing nothing its like u are throwing a rock in the sky so at the end it will fall :megalol:

i dont know what they did to the missile but something is not right the missile according to radar scope launched near to no escape zone 27nm at angle 30 is near to no escape zone and missile is doing nothing its like u are throwing a rock in the sky so at the end it will fall :megalol:

NEZ is (should be) dynamic depending on altitude, closure rate, aspect, and aircraft speed at launch.

If you're very fast and above the target, NEZ should be greater than if you slow or lower than the target. Same for if you're pointing optimally for launch or not (basically, anything that causes the missile to need to turn will reduce overall range and speed).

If the aircraft you're shooting is within the NEZ, then theoretically even a 180 degree turn should be insufficent to run away from the missile. There are other factors, such as exceeding the missile seeker cone, turning tightly causing the missile to overshoot, use of counter-measures, etc.

The overall penalty for look down have been increased some time ago(global impact on AAM), and after the new LOFT API introduced, most people will try to launch the SD10 in LOFT thus usually place the missile into a lookdown situation when the seeker trying to acquire the target.

And since the SD-10 has lower chaff rejection, it will go for chaff(or jinking between chaff and target) more often than AIM-120 when target is notching the missile and keep dropping chaff.

This is also the best way to defeat a SD-10 near NEZ.

it seems to turn into the ground instead of tracking straight

hey bruh i have done this before it never used to do that it used to fly straight into the guy no it just turns into the ground

The overall penalty for look down have been increased some time ago(global impact on AAM), and after the new LOFT API introduced, most people will try to launch the SD10 in LOFT thus usually place the missile into a lookdown situation when the seeker trying to acquire the target.

 

And since the SD-10 has lower chaff rejection, it will go for chaff(or jinking between chaff and target) more often than AIM-120 when target is notching the missile and keep dropping chaff.

 

This is also the best way to defeat a SD-10 near NEZ.

Fox did u saw my tacview files ?? the missile in 27nm is a lose shoot SD-10 is not operational anymore in Nez zone i already shared a tacview with 30nm and 27nm shoots and BTW this 2 in angel 30 between max range and no escape zone range and failed to hit the target

the nez is 8 miles it cant track a target properly from 8 miles not 30

;4350326']the nez is 8 miles it cant track a target properly from 8 miles not 30

I can, also, if you're 8 miles, I recommend to use ACMs

yes but i get a guy on vs and shoot him the missile tracks the trees instead of the target i think the hornet pilots need to stop complaining and learn how to ovoid the sd 10 instead of crying for it to get nerfed .

;4350384']yes but i get a guy on vs and shoot him the missile tracks the trees instead of the target i think the hornet pilots need to stop complaining and learn how to ovoid the sd 10 instead of crying for it to get nerfed .

That’s why I think you should post the track or tacview here for everyone and the devs to look at, becuase that has to be lag or chaff, I have gotten everywhere from WVR and full range and always getting good tracks, I just only fly on GS during the night when there’s not a lot of people so I’m probably not having as bad as lag as you

Fox did u saw my tacview files ?? the missile in 27nm is a lose shoot SD-10 is not operational anymore in Nez zone i already shared a tacview with 30nm and 27nm shoots and BTW this 2 in angel 30 between max range and no escape zone range and failed to hit the target

I've viewed the ACMI, all 4 shots were failed because missile ran out of battery(life time >80sec),you can pull out the G chart for the missile and all curve drop to 0G at 80secs.

But even if they have longer battery time, the missile is completely out of energy(<M.85), the missile won't have enough lift to support any further chasing.

DCS DLZ is not very accurate if have to say,veterans usually use their experience to evaluate the PK. And NEZ does not guarantee a kill, outer than NEW, its up to how well your opponents will react to your missile.:D

I've viewed the ACMI, all 4 shots were failed because missile ran out of battery(life time >80sec),you can pull out the G chart for the missile and all curve drop to 0G at 80secs.

 

But even if they have longer battery time, the missile is completely out of energy(<M.85), the missile won't have enough lift to support any further chasing.

 

DCS DLZ is not very accurate if have to say,veterans usually use their experience to evaluate the PK. And NEZ does not guarantee a kill, outer than NEW, its up to how well your opponents will react to your missile.:D

It's fine if you can't/won't comment, but if you look at the energy profile vs. maneuvering and missile trajectory I posted above, you will clearly see something is seriously wrong.

In the second screenshot, you will see the missile is still maintaining altitude even though it is out of energy. Only once it has time-expired does it nose-dive into the ground.

There are so many things wrong here that point to the missile being driven until it time-expires, and not having any form of missile physics behind it.

The energy profile is what is exposing the total lack of physics.

This also explains why the DLZ of the F-18 is not behaving as expected.

I've viewed the ACMI, all 4 shots were failed because missile ran out of battery(life time >80sec),you can pull out the G chart for the missile and all curve drop to 0G at 80secs.

 

But even if they have longer battery time, the missile is completely out of energy(<M.85), the missile won't have enough lift to support any further chasing.

 

DCS DLZ is not very accurate if have to say,veterans usually use their experience to evaluate the PK. And NEZ does not guarantee a kill, outer than NEW, its up to how well your opponents will react to your missile.:D

that is why i simulated a simple Split-S maneuver against 2 conditions of shooting slandered and Lofting we need help from Deka we can't let that happen even if its up to the opponents there is some ground

rules the situation i created for this 4 test is the least that anyone can do and inside NEZ without chaff and poor defending u should be dead there is no way that if i want to kill then i should wait for my

target to fly straight to the missile that is not realistic at all and according to missile 2 motor stage and fuel and size it supposed to fly faster and more efficient than what i saw in this test even if the

missile is the weaker version of aim-120 family that is not the result u can have issue with chaff resistant or maybe maneuver issues but not in straight line condition the missile didn't pull too much G's

and already lose energy imagine this test with aim-120b not c and tell what will happen in fact i will do it today and share it here cuz i am 100% sure that at max range of 120b in my test condition u will

have a 100% kill . and BTW Fox ED said they didn't decreased the lifetime battery i am not saying it will help but something is not right here . ED didn't decrease lifetime battery and Deka so confident its 100sec then who did ??????????????????

that is why i simulated a simple Split-S maneuver against 2 conditions of shooting slandered and Lofting we need help from Deka we can't let that happen even if its up to the opponents there is some ground

 

rules the situation i created for this 4 test is the least that anyone can do and inside NEZ without chaff and poor defending u should be dead there is no way that if i want to kill then i should wait for my

 

target to fly straight to the missile that is not realistic at all and according to missile 2 motor stage and fuel and size it supposed to fly faster and more efficient than what i saw in this test even if the

 

missile is the weaker version of aim-120 family that is not the result u can have issue with chaff resistant or maybe maneuver issues but not in straight line condition the missile didn't pull too much G's

 

and already lose energy imagine this test with aim-120b not c and tell what will happen in fact i will do it today and share it here cuz i am 100% sure that at max range of 120b in my test condition u will

 

have a 100% kill . and BTW Fox ED said they didn't decreased the lifetime battery i am not saying it will help but something is not right here . ED didn't decrease lifetime battery and Deka so confident its 100sec then who did ??????????????????

Can you also try:

SD-10 at 20 NM

AIM-120 at 20 NM

AIM-9M at 8 NM

AIM-7M at 15 NM?

In all cases, set up an AI to orbit in-place (add unit in ME and do nothing but tell it to not react and orbit. Don't add waypoints).

Wait for the AI to turn nose-hot before flying towards and firing co-altitude at Mach 0.90 and lofting.

I'm curious to see if you see the same thing.

that is why i simulated a simple Split-S maneuver against 2 conditions of shooting slandered and Lofting we need help from Deka we can't let that happen even if its up to the opponents there is some ground

 

rules the situation i created for this 4 test is the least that anyone can do and inside NEZ without chaff and poor defending u should be dead there is no way that if i want to kill then i should wait for my

 

target to fly straight to the missile that is not realistic at all and according to missile 2 motor stage and fuel and size it supposed to fly faster and more efficient than what i saw in this test even if the

 

missile is the weaker version of aim-120 family that is not the result u can have issue with chaff resistant or maybe maneuver issues but not in straight line condition the missile didn't pull too much G's

 

and already lose energy imagine this test with aim-120b not c and tell what will happen in fact i will do it today and share it here cuz i am 100% sure that at max range of 120b in my test condition u will

 

have a 100% kill . and BTW Fox ED said they didn't decreased the lifetime battery i am not saying it will help but something is not right here . ED didn't decrease lifetime battery and Deka so confident its 100sec then who did ??????????????????

I'm not fully understand what you are asking for?

Any AAM launched out side NEZ is supposed to be defeat by energy(that's why NEZ is called NEZ), the most simply way is to turn cold and run. This will guarantee to drag out all the missile's energy.

If you fired out side NEZ, and target refuse to cooperate, the PK is surely low. This is how missile and BVR works.

I don't see any fault or bug on SD-10 inside your ACMI.

I'm not fully understand what you are asking for?

 

Any AAM launched out side NEZ is supposed to be defeat by energy(that's why NEZ is called NEZ), the most simply way is to turn cold and run. This will guarantee to drag out all the missile's energy.

 

If you fired out side NEZ, and target refuse to cooperate, the PK is surely low. This is how missile and BVR works.

 

I don't see any fault or bug on SD-10 inside your ACMI.

Uh huh... OK...

I'm not fully understand what you are asking for?

 

Any AAM launched out side NEZ is supposed to be defeat by energy(that's why NEZ is called NEZ), the most simply way is to turn cold and run. This will guarantee to drag out all the missile's energy.

 

If you fired out side NEZ, and target refuse to cooperate, the PK is surely low. This is how missile and BVR works.

 

I don't see any fault or bug on SD-10 inside your ACMI.

i dont get it . now i am confused i launched inside NEZ why u said i launched outside NEZ ?

sorry can u help me out here what is the range of SD-10 ?

i dont get it . now i am confused i launched inside NEZ why u said i launched outside NEZ ?

 

sorry can u help me out here what is the range of SD-10 ?

I think he's unable to address the problem, and gave a generic reply. Notice how he completely ignored my post (it's cool, foxwxl :) ).

I think he's unable to address the problem.

u know what i am thinking now and i hope i am not right ED & DEKA nerfed the weapone at the same time ED behind DEKA back nerfed the missile at the time DEKA was doing modification for the missile .. i hope really i am wrong

u know what i am thinking now and i hope i am not right ED & DEKA nerfed the weapone at the same time ED behind DEKA back nerfed the missile at the time DEKA was doing modification for the missile .. i hope really i am wrong

Well, if you can fly those tests with other missiles we will know more, but right now the missile behavior is completely wrong.

Air-to-air combat (unless with guns) is basically a toy at this point.

I'll also figure out how to get ACMI and fly some profiles.

I'm particularly interested to see if I can get the AIM-120 to over-fly the target again.

Here is something I observed the other night: the closer the missile shot, the sooner it runs out of energy. The exact opposite of what I would expect.

foxwxl did get the definition of NEZ slightly wrong: NEZ is where the missile carries sufficient energy for max g turns up to missile g limit of +32 or +40 g or whatever the missile is capable of and still intercept the target. A missile would be forced to do this if the bandit turned into the missile or performed a 180 changing from left to right at close range, forcing large trajectory change in the missile.

A kill in NEZ is not certain if the defending aircraft is fast and beams the missile causing it to overshoot and lose track.

High speed is how I'm able to troll F-14 in MP. ;) Combined with our discoveries here, it's no wonder people think SD-10 "has too much powaaa!".

Well, if you can fly those tests with other missiles we will know more, but right now the missile behavior is completely wrong.

 

Air-to-air combat (unless with guns) is basically a toy at this point.

 

I'll also figure out how to get ACMI and fly some profiles.

 

I'm particularly interested to see if I can get the AIM-120 to over-fly the target again.

 

Here is something I observed the other night: the closer the missile shot, the sooner it runs out of energy. The exact opposite of what I would expect.

 

foxwxl did get the definition of NEZ slightly wrong: NEZ is where the missile carries sufficient energy for max g turns up to missile g limit of +32 or +40 g or whatever the missile is capable of and still intercept the target. A missile would be forced to do this if the bandit turned into the missile or performed a 180 changing from left to right at close range, forcing large trajectory change in the missile.

i will now