Degraded Su-27 aerodynamic lift - Page 24 - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-01-2018, 05:52 PM   #231
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8G at 740km/h and 23.3 AoA seem be be pretty solid results to me.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:02 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmckay View Post
If its allready well known to ED then why it is so drasticly and obviously changed with each new update? How come module flight performance margin is not sealed from beginning?


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Exactly, because from what I feel, there is someone (higher rank) who wants to add a little extra to the Eagle without telling anything in the update info (it's a secret, right?), but I don't really get the reason..., that won't make the real Eagle's performance also rise, but it's just making DCS's reputation decay and it really hurts! The Eagle, without droops (which do increase the critical AoA, not as bbrz who thinks they don't) and without useful vortexes (which are created just by special surfaces) seems to roll so easily from one wing to the other (with rudder deflections held neutral by forced inputs) at AoAs above 25 (35 on indexer) like it's some supernatural creation that defies all aerodynamics laws, called DCS creations!

If you have the patience, do a test in DCS with the F-15, find the lift coefficient at each AoA from zero to 38, plot a curve of lift to AoA and guess what you find! That's right..., the most rudimentary lift to AoA function which is nothing but a curve (something that you get using 3D panels methods on CFD). That's how sophisticated the aerodynamic functions are actually in DCS. The simplest functions ever in a simulator we all believed in. No linear lift slope portions (although for a lower AoA range, but real), no stall onset curve. I don't even wanna know how the drag to AoA function looks like (which is far more complex than for lift)..., I don't want my eyes to hurt my eyes with that!

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Old 03-01-2018, 06:07 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Vitormouraa View Post
8G at 740km/h and 23.3 AoA seem be be pretty solid results to me.
That result is spot on, thanks for testing again!

Seems like my memories were not accurate and the plane matches the charts perfectly
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:09 PM   #234
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Macerick gave good CL lift progression vs AoA. Im sorry I cant test anything now becouse DCS 2.5 eats my gtx760. Obviously not best time to buy gcard but have to. Regardless of CL, the drag is very important in linear acceleration and in turn as it bleeds speed directly. I did linear acceleration subsonic test from 650 to 1100kmh all modules AI simultaniously, all AB engined fleet, made power to weight progression charts, setup things and run.. A got a complete mess, planes with lower T/W ratio accelerated better than other with higher.. Egg. Viggen had linear acceleration up to vmax without ease out on peak as fastest plane there.. Mig21 was behind many even it has better T/W ratio than mirage that was second befind viggen... The problem is unreal drag calculation in basic linear acc test. Also IAS is onl relevant speed wind tunnel testing. Cd vs AaA is a must chart for flight model correction.


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Old 03-01-2018, 06:15 PM   #235
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For F-15 it is known that it gets heyvy buffeting at peak turn rate high AoA and pilots must ease out becouse of heavy vibrations also becouse it has no LE stats to keep laminar airflow on wing. That was MD's trade for speed to reach Foxbat, rember mach 2.5? So eagle shouldnt perform STR better than LE slatted planes.


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Old 03-01-2018, 06:17 PM   #236
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Maverick, with all due respect, I appreciate your knowledge about aerodynamics, and being technical is a good thing, but you were wrong about the Su-27 FM in DCS, it perfectly matches the real life charts. Are you sure about what you're saying regarding the Eagle performance in DCS? Saying Belsimtek (which developed the FM) added an extra performance for the Eagle on purpose is a bit too much. Just be careful with this kind of affirmation.

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So eagle shouldnt perform STR better than LE slatted planes.
What's your source for this? Are you just guessing? Otherwise, that's not a valid argument; Saying the X shouldn't perform STR better than Y isn't helping. See, someone pulled up some charts from the manual and we checked it, they match each other.

Let's do that with the Eagle too. I'm aware that we don't have ITR charts though.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:27 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Maverick Su-35S View Post
Exactly, because from what I feel,
No one cares what you feel.

Quote:
there is someone (higher rank) who wants to add a little extra to the Eagle without telling anything in the update info (it's a secret, right?),
Nope. And now you're on the verge of being ignored thanks to making up baseless conspiracy theories.

You then continue to fail by putting up airshow routines - guess what, airshow routines are quite strict regarding what you can and cannot do, and they don't demonstrate anywhere near all of the aircraft's capabilities.
No one cares about your personal determination of the eagle's CL given that real numbers are available from NASA, gathered by flying the aircraft. And now your credibility goes further down the drain by claiming that those numbers are somehow false. Even if you were to finally find an actual flaw in the FM, you now look like you're just on a witch hunt.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:49 PM   #238
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Slight aside obviously but I have a gtx760ftw (4GB RAM) + 24GB RAM + SSD ... works ok aside from the occasional stutter. Just as a point of comparison.

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Macerick gave good CL lift progression vs AoA. Im sorry I cant test anything now becouse DCS 2.5 eats my gtx760.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:49 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
No one cares what you feel.



Nope. And now you're on the verge of being ignored thanks to making up baseless conspiracy theories.

You then continue to fail by putting up airshow routines - guess what, airshow routines are quite strict regarding what you can and cannot do, and they don't demonstrate anywhere near all of the aircraft's capabilities.
No one cares about your personal determination of the eagle's CL given that real numbers are available from NASA, gathered by flying the aircraft. And now your credibility goes further down the drain by claiming that those numbers are somehow false. Even if you were to finally find an actual flaw in the FM, you now look like you're just on a witch hunt.
Amen!

From promising flight sim enthusiast to tinfoil hat wearer in one month, what a career...

I enjoyed the early Tests but now it's nothing more than pointless "who has the biggest... Russia vs US" Like all these stupid clickbait YouTube Videos.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:57 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by FSKRipper View Post
Amen!

From promising flight sim enthusiast to tinfoil hat wearer in one month, what a career...
Yup, he just lost all credibility.
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