GeneralDynamics Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) I was watching an A-10C video I had recorded back in May of 2017, and it seemed to me that strictly from an image quality perspective, the 2017 video looked more realistic than what we have today. That's just my own opinion, and before you flame me, yes, I'm fully aware of improvements made to the graphics engine and that 2.5.6 is still a work in progress, yet I found myself longing for the image quality that was available back in the day. I took a screen print from the 2017 video (which had an inset image of me flying with Helios running) and a screen print today from roughly the same location over Nevada. I've attached both, and I'm interested to hear your comments regarding which image looks more realistic. I'm looking for comments and opinions based strictly upon the image quality between those two screen prints. I felt that the 2017 image looked richer and a bit more detailed, while the current 2020 image looks more washed out and and the terrain looks more "cartoonish" for lack of a better word. What are your thoughts? Image on left is 2017 and 2020 is on the right. Edited July 4, 2020 by GeneralDynamics System Specs: Win 10 x64 Pro, ASUS Maximus X Formula, i9-9900K @ 4.7 GHz, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200 MHz, NZXT Kraken X73 AIO Cooler, Titan X Pascal GPU, EVGA Supernova 1000W P2 PSU, C: 1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 PCIe SSD, D: 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD, HT Omega Claro PCIe 7.1 Sound, Denon AVR-1709 7.1 Receiver, 46" Sharp Aquos Quattron Main Screen, 27" Acer T272HL TouchScreen + Helios, TrackIR 5, ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog, Crosswinds pedals, SimShaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdevil Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 left looks better. however are you sure you have same graphics settings on the 2017 vs 2020? to be fair and using scientific method be sure to have all the parameters the same. my graphics look pretty rich now. AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Whereas to me everything about the 2020 version looks better & more realistic. I guess that's why they have menus in restaurants. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDynamics Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 left looks better. however are you sure you have same graphics settings on the 2017 vs 2020? to be fair and using scientific method be sure to have all the parameters the same. my graphics look pretty rich now. I have new hardware now, need to update my specs as I'm now running an I9-9900K on a Z370 board with my old Titan X. I don't think Gamma was even a thing yet back in 2017. When I try reducing Gamma currently, I get bluish tints in the shadows and other odd color anomalies, but it could very well be my equipment. The settings, however, should be very close to what I had back in 2017. Gamma was at 2.1 in the 2020 photo. System Specs: Win 10 x64 Pro, ASUS Maximus X Formula, i9-9900K @ 4.7 GHz, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200 MHz, NZXT Kraken X73 AIO Cooler, Titan X Pascal GPU, EVGA Supernova 1000W P2 PSU, C: 1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 PCIe SSD, D: 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD, HT Omega Claro PCIe 7.1 Sound, Denon AVR-1709 7.1 Receiver, 46" Sharp Aquos Quattron Main Screen, 27" Acer T272HL TouchScreen + Helios, TrackIR 5, ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog, Crosswinds pedals, SimShaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Yep, your gamma is too high, imo, also bear in mind monitor settings, etc. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDynamics Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Current settings attached. System Specs: Win 10 x64 Pro, ASUS Maximus X Formula, i9-9900K @ 4.7 GHz, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200 MHz, NZXT Kraken X73 AIO Cooler, Titan X Pascal GPU, EVGA Supernova 1000W P2 PSU, C: 1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 PCIe SSD, D: 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD, HT Omega Claro PCIe 7.1 Sound, Denon AVR-1709 7.1 Receiver, 46" Sharp Aquos Quattron Main Screen, 27" Acer T272HL TouchScreen + Helios, TrackIR 5, ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog, Crosswinds pedals, SimShaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) nm Edited July 4, 2020 by Weta43 Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDynamics Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 I hadn't changed the gamma since it once looked great before the last several updates, but I'll try fiddling with it both in DCS and also in the monitor and see if I can get it dialed in better. System Specs: Win 10 x64 Pro, ASUS Maximus X Formula, i9-9900K @ 4.7 GHz, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200 MHz, NZXT Kraken X73 AIO Cooler, Titan X Pascal GPU, EVGA Supernova 1000W P2 PSU, C: 1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 PCIe SSD, D: 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD, HT Omega Claro PCIe 7.1 Sound, Denon AVR-1709 7.1 Receiver, 46" Sharp Aquos Quattron Main Screen, 27" Acer T272HL TouchScreen + Helios, TrackIR 5, ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog, Crosswinds pedals, SimShaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 What stands out the most is that more small buildings are visible in the 2020 image. The 2017 one has a bunch of blurry spots. Not sure if that's hardware or settings, or something other than the graphics quality, but 2020 looks better to me. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDynamics Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Well, I've fiddled and tweaked until I'm blue in the face and I'm still unable to get the current DCS looking realistic/natural. The only thing I can think of at this point is that the DCS team is developing on monitors/TVs that far exceed the technology that my 9 year old 46 inch 1080P TV is capable of. Maybe it's time to upgrade, BUT I've tried before. My problem is that I like using a large display, and large monitors (40+ inches) are prohibitively expensive coupled with the fact that 1080P TVs are pretty much a thing of the past. I don't want to give up Helios because I love my glass cockpit controls, so now in order to upgrade, I'm looking at trying to run DCS on a 4K TV plus running Helios on a second 1080P touch screen. Running DCS smoothly on 4K alone will be a challenge, let alone trying to render an additional 1080P touch screen at the same time. Maybe when the 3080ti cards come out things will change. I guess time will tell:-) System Specs: Win 10 x64 Pro, ASUS Maximus X Formula, i9-9900K @ 4.7 GHz, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200 MHz, NZXT Kraken X73 AIO Cooler, Titan X Pascal GPU, EVGA Supernova 1000W P2 PSU, C: 1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 PCIe SSD, D: 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA SSD, HT Omega Claro PCIe 7.1 Sound, Denon AVR-1709 7.1 Receiver, 46" Sharp Aquos Quattron Main Screen, 27" Acer T272HL TouchScreen + Helios, TrackIR 5, ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog, Crosswinds pedals, SimShaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I prefere the 2020 version tbh. You will not be able to get that 2017 look back because with one of the DCS 2.5(?) versions ED introduced deferred shading rendering to the engine and made it mandatory with the update to OB on 04-25-2018 ...Deferred Shading render locked in the game and can not be turned off. DCS ceased support of old graphic render without Deferred Shading.... https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3463558&postcount=8 Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1, F-4E Phantom II System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 2020 version is better and more realistic - because the desert looks like desert - without that weird blue tint from 2017 that makes stuff look flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 2020 - no contest! Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester2138 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 They look basically the same from a graphical fidelity POV except the lighting in 2020 is better. It sounds like you just like the less saturated colors of the 2017 screenshot but that isn't more realistic, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 2020 version is better and more realistic - because the desert looks like desert - without that weird blue tint from 2017 that makes stuff look flat My opinion is that current desert rendering is somewhat too "vivid" and too "bright". But a lighting settings are important part of it all. Don't know would the reshade work with the DCS world currently or not, but it could maybe help. Or maybe Nvidia Ansel could be supported at least. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1943 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 My opinion is that current desert rendering is somewhat too "vivid" and too "bright". But a lighting settings are important part of it all. Don't know would the reshade work with the DCS world currently or not, but it could maybe help. Or maybe Nvidia Ansel could be supported at least. Maybe a little on the bright side, but I do like to see a well lit landscape. I think the terrain is a little oversaturated in the red spectrum, which could maybe be tweaked with monitor adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 I've always felt that the "day-time" in pre-PBR(old DCS) looks better than post-PBR(new DCS). However, any other time of day, the post-PBR looks way better. i9 9900k @5.1GHz NZXT Kraken |Asus ROG Strix Z390 E-Gaming | Samsung NVMe m.2 970 Evo 1TB | LPX 64GB DDR4 3200MHz EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | Reverb G1 | HOTAS Warthog | Saitek Flight Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 The transition to PBR I wouldn't say is complete, the tranistion only features PBR but as officially said the new lighting is only a first of like several steps to get to the intended look, it's down to fine-tuning of lighting and LODs and even all good new tech can look worse if the final step isn't done. Especially Tree LODs, I'm not talking about the amount of trees, but the LOD of the trees, I've talked about it before how the radius and LOD is all interwined currently in the options screen, not optimal. Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterH Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 I'd say 2020 image is considerably better. But, time of day and lightining conditions seem not to be exactly equal do they? I used to like 1.5 lighting and rendering better than 2.5 untill 2.5.6 came, which, I believe, is really, really great looking. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kengou Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 I prefer the 2020 image. Deserts and landscapes in bright sunshine are, well, bright. Not gray. Virpil WarBRD | Thrustmaster Hornet Grip | Foxx Mount | Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle | Logitech G Throttle Quadrant | VKB T-Rudder IV | TrackIR 5 AMD Ryzen 5 3600 | Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB | 32GB DDR4 3200 | SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0414 Wee Neal Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 I would agree with the 2020 image, its a little to bright on the Gamma for my taste, I have mine normally 1.4-1.6; but thats a personal view of course! Neal Desktop PC: Intel i7 14700K, MSI Z790 MAG Tomahawk MOBO, 64Gb RAM , GPU Nvidia RTX 3080ti Windows 11, VPC joystick, Crosswind rudder peddles, HP Reverb G2, VPC Collective, DOF Reality H2, Gametrix seat, WinWing panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 The old one looks much less hazy, far more visibility distance there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lange_666 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2020 simply because the colours are more real (2017 is way to grey, even the trees are grey). Win11 Pro 64-bit, Ryzen 5800X3D, Corsair H115i, Gigabyte X570S UD, EVGA 3080Ti XC3 Ultra 12GB, 64 GB DDR4 G.Skill 3600. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base, MFG Crosswind combat pedals, TrackIR4, Rift-S. Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 One has to remember that apart from gfx engine, NTTR map itself went separately through numerous colour tone revisions, so comparison is not quite fair. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Combat Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) Well... The color tone revisions helped make it look more realistic. I've been to that area many times. Looks pretty decent IMO in the 2020 pic. Maybe if it was overcast and it had just rained through that entire area it might look slightly like the pic from 2017... Not really though. Also... we're talking about whether it looks better... I'd say the color revisions help it look better :). Regarding all the things aside from the color tone... The 2020 pic is still better... A lot. Look at the trees. I'd say that the trees need more variety in their color tone for sure though... but the roads, ground and buildings are better defined and the shading of the buildings themselves look much better... except for the actual shadows they cast... I think those look better on the older pic... but I'd like to see the new pic with the gamma turned down to a normal level. As Eldur mentioned I dislike the haze on the 2020 pic... That said... I think the haze is pretty much the same in both pics. the difference is that the darker ground textures seem to conceal it a bit? If you look for detail you can't really find any more in the distance in the 201 pic. It just doesn't "appear" to have as much haze. I think it does. but... 2020 pic is way better. Edited July 7, 2020 by M1Combat Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600 Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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