F5 uncage/radar questions

Hi guys,

Love this module, but I have a few questions.

The uncaging of fox 2s, is there an indicator in the cockpit somewhere to show whether it's caged/uncaged?

Do you use your radar to track/lock and engage re the training missions, or do you just get them in your boresight and wait for a tone before loosing your fox2s?

Thanks,

JackHammer

Hi I use radar to find and fix then just keep knocking the distance dial till I am on 10, lock up the bogey when I get lock and range signs lit I uncage the seeker and fire. The reticule moves when you uncage the seeker

Ah cool,

I'll keep an eye on the reticule next time I'm messing about.

You have to hold the uncage button for it to work, so it’s easy to tell if it’s engaged.

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There is also a subtle change in the sidewinder tone when the uncage button is pressed. The tactic I like to use is approach the bandit visually for a shot and engage the dogfight missile mode for an auto lock and ranging information late in the approach.

There is also a subtle change in the sidewinder tone when the uncage button is pressed. The tactic I like to use is approach the bandit visually for a shot and engage the dogfight missile mode for an auto lock and ranging information late in the approach.

Cheers I will try that. Does the Lock light, light up when lock is achieved?

I believe it does a and you should get an “in range” annunciation as well when the target is in the weapon’s envelope. Honestly, I’m not paying much attention to the radar display at that point. The gunsight itself provides all of the info you need for an effective wvr engagement. Learning the gunsight symbology is a huge help in employing this jet.

I think the tutorials could be more indepth or a bit more paced out. The wall of text approach in some of them is a bit overwhelming at times, also be better for me personally if they were audio too.

I would second Midnightzulu, the gunsight symbology really shows you everything you need to know if you have the radar on. The "lock on" annunciator is irrelevant- if the range bar is in view wrapping the right side of the gunsight, the radar has a lock on something. The "in range" annunciator isn't needed - the diamond will appear on the gunsight's 2 o'clock if the radar decides you are in the missile envelope. All of this right through the gunsight, no reason to go heads down in a WVR fight.

To answer the OP though, for missiles I rarely if ever employ the radar. Turning it on in MP is like a flashing "here I am" for any enemy with a RWR and it has been my general experience if I am close enough to identify another aircraft as a bandit visually, I am close enough for a missile shot. And I do uncage just before every shot - if the seeker is really looking at something when you uncage, you will hear the tone increase in pitch.

About the only thing I will use the radar for is DG mode for a little help with holdover/ranging for a guns shot, but even then a snapshot from the fixed pipper is usually doable.

I don't really get what uncaging does. I have looked at YT videos, and they suggest that the lock is held at a much wider range of reticle movement than without it.

I don't really see that. All that happens for me is a change in the sidewinder tone when hold the uncage button. I don't really notice any other difference.

What exactly should the uncaging do?

I don't really get what uncaging does. I have looked at YT videos, and they suggest that the lock is held at a much wider range of reticle movement than without it.

I don't really see that. All that happens for me is a change in the sidewinder tone when hold the uncage button. I don't really notice any other difference.

What exactly should the uncaging do?

Without uncaging you have to keep the pipper on the target in order for the missile to keep the lock but if you uncage it when the missile gets good tone you have more leeway in manuvering without loosing the lock as the uncaged seeker will follow the target thus maintaining the lock.

This is especially usefull in allowing you to set up lead shots on turning enemies etc.

As you can put the pipper on the target untill the missile locks,

then uncage the seeker and pull lead before launching so the missile does not have to turn as hard to hit the target once launched.

Thanks, I understand that, but, as I said in my earlier post, I’m not really seeing that. I have about the same range of reticle movement to hold the lock with or without uncaging.

Imacken, try this: Set up against a non maneuvering target. Get behind him with a good sidewinder lock without holding the uncage button. Now move your nose off the target. You’ll find that you loose the lock pretty quickly. Now try it while holding the uncage button. You will maintain the lock for a much greater degree of nose movement. Note that the reticule in your gunsight has nothing to do with where the sidewinder seeker is looking.

Sorry guys, but I really can't see much of a difference at all between caged and uncaged.

Using the MSL training mission, there really isn't much of a difference in losing the lock caged or uncaged. It's very marginal. Pitching down shows slightly more nose movement tolerance, but pitching up doesn't.

Sorry guys, but I really can't see much of a difference at all between caged and uncaged.

Using the MSL training mission, there really isn't much of a difference in losing the lock caged or uncaged. It's very marginal. Pitching down shows slightly more nose movement tolerance, but pitching up doesn't.

Are you holding the button? It’s not a toggle

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Yes, I'm holding the button.

Yes, I'm holding the button.

When uncaging your IR seeker range is about the size of the hud circle. When uncaged on a target it should allow you to extend that up to the size of the entire HUD. Another basic item is that you need to have the seeker locked on target before pushing and holding uncage

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There is something wrong here. Could one of you guys send me a screenshot of what the seeker should look like?

All I do is keep the reticle over the target and fire when the missiles show ‘in range’!

Unless you have radar lock the seeker is not visible- it’s the tone that you hear that changes when it’s locked on

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I’m totally confused.

Here is what I do. Take the MSL training mission as an example

1) hear the continuous tone of the seeker

2) see the target on the radar

3) get close enough and acquire target, ‘lock on’ appears

4) when ‘in range’ shows, fire missile.

All I see is the gun reticle which I keep over the target. If I move the nose around, the seeker continuous tone stops, and uncaging doesn’t give much more range before the tone stops.

I don’t see any seeker separate to the reticle.

What is wrong?

I’m totally confused.

Here is what I do. Take the. MSL training mission as an example

1) hear the continuous tone of the seeker

2) see the target on the radar

3) get close enough and acquire target, ‘lock on’ appears

4) when ‘in range’ shows, fire missile.

All I see is the gun reticle which I keep over the target. If I move the nose around, the seeker continuous tone stops, and uncaging doesn’t give much more range before the tone stops.

I don’t see any seeker separate to the reticle.

What is wrong?

Uncaging the IR Seeker does not give you more Range.

The Radar is completely separated system from the AIM-9 missile system.

That means the radar does not communicate the target location or range to the system. It only provides range indication to the pilot! You can not slave the IR seeker to a radar locked target like you do in modern fighters.

Feedback to the Pilot from Radar: only visual -> Radar Screen (AN/APQ–159) and Optical Sight System (AN/ASG-31 - it is not a HUD)

Feedback to the Pilot from IR seeker: only audio -> Tone (growl)

For simplicity keep the Radar off and leave it for later. Check your key bindings, especially that you do not have 2 buttons for 1 cockpit action.

Try again to replicate what ricktoberfest advised with a not maneuvering target:

1. Get on the targets 6 Position within the AIM-9 weapon envelope (2000-7000ft)

2. Select MSL Mode on the AN/ASG 31 and set up your aim 9s

3. put the pipper on the target and wait for a high pich tone (Manual page 230)

4. roll no more than 10° and make a easy turn away from the target and keep your altitude

Do step 4 without the uncage button and after that with pressing and holding it before the role and in the turn. With an uncaged IR seeker the high pitch tone should be there for more degrees you put the target off your nose than without.

For more information i can strongly recommend the manual. It explains how each system works in detail and gives a lot of advise for GUN and missile employment.

Uncaging the IR Seeker does not give you more Range.

The Radar is completely separated system from the AIM-9 missile system.

That means the radar does not communicate the target location or range to the system. It only provides range indication to the pilot! You can not slave the IR seeker to a radar locked target like you do in modern fighters.

 

Feedback to the Pilot from Radar: only visual -> Radar Screen (AN/APQ–159) and Optical Sight System (AN/ASG-31 - it is not a HUD)

Feedback to the Pilot from IR seeker: only audio -> Tone (growl)

 

For simplicity keep the Radar off and leave it for later. Check your key bindings, especially that you do not have 2 buttons for 1 cockpit action.

Try again to replicate what ricktoberfest advised with a not maneuvering target:

1. Get on the targets 6 Position within the AIM-9 weapon envelope (2000-7000ft)

2. Select MSL Mode on the AN/ASG 31 and set up your aim 9s

3. put the pipper on the target and wait for a high pich tone (Manual page 230)

4. roll no more than 10° and make a easy turn away from the target and keep your altitude

 

Do step 4 without the uncage button and after that with pressing and holding it before the role and in the turn. With an uncaged IR seeker the high pitch tone should be there for more degrees you put the target off your nose than without.

 

For more information i can strongly recommend the manual. It explains how each system works in detail and gives a lot of advise for GUN and missile employment.

 

? At 3:00 he shows what holding the uncage buttons does. Note that he does not use the radar. He also shows some really helpful stuff concerning the close combat modes!

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I don’t think I’m making myself clear, however.

I don’t have any problem with any of the weapons systems, and I understand how they work. My only issue is with uncaging. I can’t see much difference between caged or uncaged. (As an aside, when I talked about ‘range’ in previous post, I was referring to the nose range of movement, not range of target!)

Yes, I have seen Tricker’s video, and I don’t get that range of nose movement uncaged that he does. I also don’t see in his video the seeker graphic that someone mentioned above. Just the normal reticle.

Hi Imackan,

There seems to be a lot going on in this thread- it sounds like you obviously understand the systems so I can understand your frustration with the uncaged behavior. The only thing I can think of (maybe this is insulting but I don’t mean to be) - there are 2 cage bindings on the throttle. One is “missile uncage” and the other is “sight cage.” Missile uncage is the one in question here.

And as an aside, outside of youtube videos I have never seen the pipper move outside of the reticle, as has been brought up here. Regardless of the method of lock I use (manual acquire in MSL or DM) I have never been able to duplicate this (at least in the latest build of 1.5).

Outside of a binding mistake, I can’t understand why you would be having this problem with the uncage behavior.

OK guys, thanks for your help so far.

I was completely happy using the missiles until I discovered the uncage button!

So, I've taken a while to try and summarise where I am on this.

What I basically see is that I am able to make greater nose movements with the uncage button pressed and still maintain the continuous 'locked' tone.

However, I still have a lot of uncertainty in what has been said here (and elsewhere).

It has been suggested here that the gun reticle is not relevant to the uncaged discussion, and that turning the radar off is perhaps a good idea.

Well, can anyone tell me how you see the range information that shows on the gun reticle without having the radar on, and having the target acquired? Sure, it is possible to use the missile when relying on being able to see the target visually, but what if it is not visible? Surely the radar and range info is essential here. I mean how would you find the target in the first place (unless by luck) without the radar?

Another thing I'm confused by is that suggestions here - unless I'm misinterpreting - make out that the seeker is visible and is separate to the reticle. Is that correct? If so, I don't see it.

Any further help/advice appreciated!

You are correct, range information will only be available with the radar on. However, I very rarely use the radar in conjunction with missiles because without an IFF, visual recognition is the only way to tell you are shooting at an enemy (highly scripted scenarios being the exception here).

My experience over numerous online engagements is that if you are close enough to visually identify a bogey as a bandit and have a reasonable aspect angle, you are close enough for a missile shot. Turning on the radar just makes you more visible to RWR equipped aircraft.