Four Additional Flaming Cliffs Aircraft

you guys only have yourselves to blame for your own folly

there wasnt any hype, you guys made it up

You guys are getting mad about something that was never promised to you. You are getting made about things you wished for, not that ED said you were getting.

 

This is the downside to being open and sharing more, sometimes the hype train mows you down.

Please don't blame the consumers for your poor communication.

Please don't blame the consumers for your poor communication.

unbelievable.

1. This was the perfect opportunity to add some new aircrafts to the park with much less work than a full module would require.

 

2. This was the perfect opportunity to give us the chance to fly modern planes which are still largely classified.

 

3. It will be awesome to be shot down by someone flying the same aircraft just because this someone can skip action X and Y and therefore launch before you. You could argue that it's not much different with FC3 aircraft but at least you can expect it and act accordingly.

 

 

I think eagle dynamics is a great company and software developer but for the first time I'm really disappointed about their choice. It's redundant and a sub-optimal allocation of resources.

 

 

 

Moreover i'm actually slightly pissed because the announcement wasn't clear enough and i was seriously hyped during the last days.

Okay so full disclosure here I'm not a big fan of FC3 level aircraft and don't see the appeal of them. With that out of the way; you seem to be more disapointed because you (and you have no one to blame but yourself) artificially assumed that they were going to add new modern aircraft as part of FC4. You kind of set yourself up there....

Not everything that a developer does is going to be tailored to you as a individual, there's diverging needs in the community. I only play multiplayer so I want more multiplayer refinements whereas people that play single player want more "dynamic" options and improved AI.

If you don't have a need for FC4 just don't purchase it it's that simple.

unbelievable.

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Pretty much this

Truthfully, there is nothing more realistic about clicking a mouse on a monitor than typing the same commands on a keyboard, except the monitor is a longer reach and a little more awkward.

When VR has finger haptics to actually "touch" the virtual 3D cockpit switches and controls, that will be a move forward. The MiG-21 module tried that, but the incredibly large, clumsy "gloves" in lieu of controllers spoil the effect.

In the interim, a HOTAS is what most real-world aviators use, and so mouse clicks spoil that immersion as much as a keyboard. Mouse versus keyboard? Neither are in a real airplane. Well, maybe there are some residual, small keyboard inputs in a modern cockpit.

It is much ado over very little; what matters is when one software bird flies in the same virtual skies as another, that their interaction is as close to what would happen in reality as possible.

That is "full fidelity". A mouse or a keyboard adds nothing to that.

Try communicating in a mature fashion... 1.10

Ok ill try.

As part of my fc4 product feedback i believe its a bad idea, because even if we appriciate more content to dcs, using full fidelity modules to fill up the roster in fc4 i believe its a wasted oportunity to create NEW dcs content. Bring multicrew to fc4 and i would be happy even a potential buyer of it..

From someone who has bought and gifted more than 4 fc3 copies to new dcs pilots.

Where is my communication the issue, the part where I told you info to curb your expectations? Decide what you guys want, communication or silence.

With all due respect and while I think that you and the few people critical of the reaction of many in the user base have some good points about excessive hype, you are very much mistaken if you think that being silent about this decision would have changed people's reactions.

You seem to be missing the main point which is that people think this is a bad move regardless of what their expectations were, I don't personally have any strong feelings about this and I wasn't expecting anything from FC4 but even I was quite perplexed with this.

Saying FC4 would have been a great opportunity to add new airframes or upgrade older ones with newer features etc doesn't necessarily mean that that's what I expected or that's what I thought I was promised that's my and many others' opinion and I think it's very clear that even on this forum which is usually very understanding and tolerant of ED's moves a majority of people have felt that this is not the best decision.

Besides as paying customers people have the right to give feedback no matter what they thought they were or were not getting.

So instead of concentrating on why or how people are being critical concentrate on the feedback and criticism itself and take it into account.

Where is my communication the issue, the part where I told you info to curb your expectations? Decide what you guys want, communication or silence.

I don't think it's your communication at all, but more of what ED has said they will do in the past and then changing direction. IIRC, Wags, or another ED spokesperson, said that ED would not be doing any further FC3 level aircraft moving forward and yet here we are.

Now, FC3, or in this case FC4, level aircraft are not a bad thing. I for one love FC3. A lot of the modules are a ton of fun to fly and are really the only way to get the A2A fix. Yes, I know the M2000C exists, I just never liked it all that much. However, I think it is the direction that ED is taking this that is pushing people the wrong way.

When FC4 was announced there was a lot of speculation and hype about what aircraft could be included. We thought, given how Russia has responded in the past with desires to make full fidelity modules of their aircraft, that FC4 would be the perfect fit to expand the dismally small Redfor selection. I get that this was just speculation, but a lot of people, myself included, thought and still think that this would be the perfect time to expand the availability of aircraft to fly.

I get why ED is doing what they're doing. I get that there are a lot of people out there that are not vocal on the forums, that do not post on Hoggit, are not part of any DCS Discords. I get that a large part of the player base for DCS is single player. But again, why the choice to create FC3 level modules of already existing full fidelity modules if not to reduce costs and get products out more quickly?

Would it not be a better choice to both increase the number of a available 'simple' modules for new players or people that don't want all the buttons by creating new aircraft modules instead of ones that already exist? That way you not only sell to the 'new' guys, but you also capture the existing DCS market by giving them something they want and will use instead of something that a lot of people already have.

Frostie said it earlier about the push from LO to FC1, FC2, to FC3. In each jump something was given to the players to facilitate the jump needed to maintain the use of their already purchased modules. In the past it was things like maps etc. However, with FC4 it seems like its going to be modules a lot of the community will already own.

Again, I get it. I get that the people that vocalize their thoughts here are not the majority of the player base, but it still sucks that instead of expanding the module base and giving the community more options to fly, ED is catering to the new guy. Again, expanding the player base, I get it, but what was wrong with the existing FC3 line up to get new players started? Why did it have to be existing modules that get the FC3 treatment instead of something new?

I mean look at the 29? It still does not have a PFM. Why are we moving on to other FC endeavors when the current FC3 is not even complete yet? This is what, in my opinion, really irks people about how ED does things and that is that things get promised, 29 PFM, missile guidance and drag, damage model, etc, and then we never hear anything about them again. But instead we get movement on to new projects with announcements and chatter from the devs.

Now, ED could be working on the 29 PFM, missiles, and so on and it could be close to done, but the community will never know because it is never vocalized. Instead we hear about new projects and things that seemingly will take away from the things that really need attention in the sim.

I love DCS. I love what ED have given us and I don't want any of what I am saying to come off the wrong way. I am simply trying to vocalize what I have heard from several sources about this announcement. I want DCS to succeed and I saw ED getting on the right track with all of the communication that was being done with the Hornet and PG. I want that communication to continue and hopefully it does moving forward.

Okay so full disclosure here I'm not a big fan of FC3 level aircraft and don't see the appeal of them. With that out of the way; you seem to be more disapointed because you (and you have no one to blame but yourself) artificially assumed that they were going to add new modern aircraft as part of FC4. You kind of set yourself up there....

 

Not everything that a developer does is going to be tailored to you as a individual, there's diverging needs in the community. I only play multiplayer so I want more multiplayer refinements whereas people that play single player want more "dynamic" options and improved AI.

 

If you don't have a need for FC4 just don't purchase it it's that simple.

I can't really agree, not with you, nor with the incredibly funny guy replying with a meme which took 2 minutes to create. If only i was disappointed i would totally get it, but since many users are upset then maybe there is a reason for it? Simply blaming the community itself seems very silly to me, maybe you should look at the whole situation and analyze what went wrong.

Sure, nobody said there will be new aircraft but on the other hand no one said there won't. But ok, yes. It's my fault because i didn't think about the eventuality of a FC4 with dumbed down versions of already existing modules. I think one reason why i didn't even think about this possibility is because first of all there are many planes which are still classified and cannot be modelled entirely but would still make great FC-level planes. Secondly it was a good opportunity to expand the park of planes, giving us more choice. As a third reason i would say if FC4 would offer new content it would sell well also among us experienced users.

You are missing the point with that last sentence, now that i know FC4 is not meant for me i won't buy it obviously.

As long as you guys keep making the study level sims I dont care what you do with FC4. Now get to work on that Viper!! Oh yeah, a whiskey or zulu model cobra would be nice also hehe!!

It's unfortunate to see such potential in DCS to be ruined by arcade level development...

I’m with Drex on this issue. I bought DCS A10C many years ago. I did a couple play throughs then left. Fast forward to about a year ago I started again and again I got bored and was about to abandon DCS. I didn’t see a whole lot of reason to invest or learn a new module. Until I ran into drexs dynamic server giving each player a purpose to learn and compete. It got me into the Huey , mig 21, Nevada map, MK2, and the SU27 when I had no desire to purchase them until I found drexs server. And to drive the point home multiplayer is an industry standard now and to dance around the issue is silly. You’re losing allot of money by not polishing your multiplayer capabilities.

Disappointing news. This could have been stated from the get go...as soon as it was mentioned instead of letting the community believe they'd see something new.

Do not blame the consumers for building up a "hype train" as the only experience we've had with "Flaming CLiffs" was completely different modules. There is NO WAY anyone would have understood it would be rehashed full fidelity modules.

...and please stop using this idiotic hype train argument in general people. Having an expectation doesn't necessarily mean you're overly excited about it.

Also please stop with the logical fallacy that communication is either all or nothing. People aren't upset with more information they're upset with bad information. More information means worse than nothing if it's not true.

Also disappointing because this undoubtedly means that the long existing problems that we've all been told would be quickly addressed after "the great merge" are now going to be put on the back burner. I'm sure we'll be told this isn't the case but we all know that resources are finite.

If this is being done for cash flow business reasons I completely understand and see no harm in it. I would have liked to see the public relations aspect of it handled much differently though.

EA-6B..............

So this is a update from FC3 to FC4?

If the FC3 customers don't buy this update, they will not be able to play FC3 anymore?

So this is a update from FC3 to FC4?

If the FC3 customers don't buy this update, they will not be able to play FC3 anymore?

No, its a new set of airplanes at the same level of the fc3, i you own fc3 you can still fly those and you will get a discount for the new planes in fc4.

Where is my communication the issue, the part where I told you info to curb your expectations? Decide what you guys want, communication or silence.

With all due respect Nineline,

What has happened is ED(You) has gone "FC4 is coming with 4 additional aircraft" then dropped the mic and walking away for a week, then come back and gone "Hey guys, its your fault you moved pass the reasonable expectations that I did not set out for you when I announced it"

I'm really not upset over expanding FC3/4 aircraft, I came to this game through FC3. I might wish you were, and think you might of been better served by including at least 2, never before flyable aircraft, to placate that full-fidelity-or-bust mentality people with a dose of "well, if its the only way we're gonna get it..."

BUT. I think you would of been better served to state in the original announcement, that this were going to be 4 new additional FC level aircraft of existing full-fidelity modules, and you wouldn't of seen this level of hype and disappointment.

You had people dreaming of a F-22 or F-35 (seriously guys? Why did anyone think those 2 planes were possible/likely?). You shouldn't blame your customers when you leave the gate open, and slam it shut a week later.

No, its a new set of airplanes at the same level of the fc3, i you own fc3 you can still fly those and you will get a discount for the new planes in fc4.

Got it.

So I don't care about this four planes anymore.

100% I'd rather have improvements to multiplayer, like dedicated server, which ED announced far earlier than FC4... maybe they should finish that before releasing new FC4 aircraft. Multiplayer support will drive people to buy FC3 and full fidelity modules.