Mk-82 Effectiveness

Yesterday I drop 8 Mk-82 bombs with Mirage-2000C and the results are in the next image (sorry for the quality)

What I am about to say is pure opinion based on 0 technical data.

I believe that the second and third impact (from top to bottom) should have destroyed the house and unutilized the radar (to the right of the impact point) which has a fragile structure as opposite to bmp´s. The third and fourth impact should have destroyed or at least unutilized both bmp´s.

As it is today Mk-82 are practically useless when used with Mirage-2000C accuracy.

What do you think?

Right house should be destroyed from bomb #1. Radar would probably have shrapnel/cuncussion damage, but not catastrophically destroyed. Same with BMP for bomb 3. Probably penetrated with shrapnel. 50/50 on whether still operable or burning.

If that house is made of concrete....about 3-4 foot, what makes you think frag / blast will do much to it? This is not a western house made of plywood.

If that house is made of concrete....about 3-4 foot, what makes you think frag / blast will do much to it? This is not a western house made of plywood.

Yes, but a house made of concrete would be a bunker. This house has a chimney and tiles roof. That seems to me like a common house made of bricks.

I'm not giving excuse to ED's modeling of damage, but in this instance -- it's realistic. Picture a brick house for instance with concrete foundation... soft soil around the house. Bomb fuse is set for impact, but due to soft soil it digs little bit before explosion. Frag is going outward from our crater. Blast removes windows and some tiles. Maybe creates few nice cracks in the foundation. House still stands...

So to solution. Few B-52s drop all of their load out on a city. What do you expect to happen....

Do they model each brick and kill your computer dead once it tries to simulate those explosions. Do similar to BF3-4 building damage...excellent on localized small map but requires quite a large team. Or do they add few textures to the house with HP. If HP this - then show this texture. No HP - show "dead" building.

Choices... Are you asking to add less "HP" to building so that your expectation of reality is simulated or...

The damage modelling is in need of big fixes. That house in real life would be half collapsed from an impact that close. The weapon ordinance needs a more enhanced modelling of terminal effects and that would be achieved and enhanced with tgts having much more accurate damage states.

Mobility

Firepower

Catastophic kills as the 3 levels rather than health bars.

Check the mod forums for the Rocket bomb mod that increases certain radius effects. Works quite well actually.

[ame]

Blitz street had some nice footage showing what damage a variety of different bombs do to buildings.

 

Blitz street had some nice footage showing what damage a variety of different bombs do to buildings.

wow! a Must watch video! :thumbup:

Considering that the SC50 has only 1/4 of the explosive that a Mk82 contains, and the end terrace wall was pretty much taken out, I suspect that bomb 2 would have taken out that building with blast damage alone.

A terraced house I once lived in had bomb damage caused by luftwaffe bombs dropped 2 streets away (about 250m). According to an old lady living across the road, who was there when it happened said it was like an earthquake.

I'm not giving excuse to ED's modeling of damage, but in this instance -- it's realistic. Picture a brick house for instance with concrete foundation... soft soil around the house. Bomb fuse is set for impact, but due to soft soil it digs little bit before explosion. Frag is going outward from our crater. Blast removes windows and some tiles. Maybe creates few nice cracks in the foundation. House still stands...

 

So to solution. Few B-52s drop all of their load out on a city. What do you expect to happen....

 

Do they model each brick and kill your computer dead once it tries to simulate those explosions. Do similar to BF3-4 building damage...excellent on localized small map but requires quite a large team. Or do they add few textures to the house with HP. If HP this - then show this texture. No HP - show "dead" building.

 

Choices... Are you asking to add less "HP" to building so that your expectation of reality is simulated or...

I am not asking for ED to add a CFD explosion simulator. I am only expressing my point of view, which is that a bomb run like that should have had some effect on the target. And that as it is today, is kind of useless to drop Mk-82 with M2K because a direct hit is practically never expected.

Now that you ask, I think that simply adding a little more power to the bomb will do it.

remember fragmentation modeling damage has not implemented.

soft soil around the house. Bomb fuse is set for impact, but due to soft soil it digs little bit before explosion. Frag is going outward from our crater.

That screen is from the top of the highest mountain of the map. No soft soils around there.

I'm sure the bomb blast "damgaged" (as in reduced health/lifepoints) that building and the vehicles.

The only "issue" is, that DCS currently has only two states of damage modeled for ground objects, alive or dead/destroyed.

As mentioned already, only blast, but no fragmentation damage is modeled. (pause for a second and think about just 100 fragments per bomb x 8 bombs dropped from an Mirage or A-10C, all calculating ballistics, speed, impact, etc.).

So in fact ED already enhanced the blast "damage" a bit to compensate, yet it cannot reproduce a vehicle kill by shrapnel hitting vital parts.

My guess is, damage model in general is on the road map, so we may hope ground objects will get some love in the future.

:)

from my point of view the damage model is the most important thing ED should work on - a lot of DCS weapons are useless - nothing to achive with any free fall bomb here

... unless you have a really good aim ;)

... or use that mod: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=159795

Put your volume down.....

Yes, DCS is broken heavily because missing fragmentation, proximity fuzes and many other required features.

Bombs and rockets really would require fragmentation simulation (just random numbers for simulate does something hit at what change or not) and vehicles would need at least few damage model improvements like base (tracks or wheels), hull, tower/weapons so is any of those three damaged or destroyed.

So we could get mobility kills, we could destroy the cargo content (troops or blow the whole vehicle up) or get the weapons jammed/destroyed.

I wouldn't require too serious simulation for those.

I'm sure the bomb blast "damgaged" (as in reduced health/lifepoints) that building and the vehicles.

The only "issue" is, that DCS currently has only two states of damage modeled for ground objects, alive or dead/destroyed.

 

As mentioned already, only blast, but no fragmentation damage is modeled. (pause for a second and think about just 100 fragments per bomb x 8 bombs dropped from an Mirage or A-10C, all calculating ballistics, speed, impact, etc.).

 

So in fact ED already enhanced the blast "damage" a bit to compensate, yet it cannot reproduce a vehicle kill by shrapnel hitting vital parts.

 

My guess is, damage model in general is on the road map, so we may hope ground objects will get some love in the future.

:)

That's exactly I want to say..

The two state—Live/Dead is the key to the problem

I hope ED could implement a damaged status (for buildings and land based vehicles )first. What need to be done is simply add some smoke effect and disable mobile or firing capacity of it. It will significantly improve the battle authenticity even there are now 3D modeled or textured damaging effect.

That's exactly I want to say..

The two state—Live/Dead is the key to the problem

I hope ED could implement a damaged status (for buildings and land based vehicles )first. What need to be done is simply add some smoke effect and disable mobile or firing capacity of it. It will significantly improve the battle authenticity even there are now 3D modeled or textured damaging effect.

As far as I am aware it is worked on. Damage model for the WW II planes is worked on and was announced in the news letter. already and I am sure they won't stop there.

There seem to be some optimizations already done under the hood for ground assets, as well.

Either that or my aim improved dramatically...

I am sure it is a matter of time. They are defenitely aware of it. Wags said it again in the recent Q&A with Sidestrafe.

With 9+ years of maturing, we should not be discussing this. Its one of the first things that should have been implemented.

This is after all a COMBAT! simulation

With 9+ years of maturing, we should not be discussing this. Its one of the first things that should have been implemented.

This is after all a COMBAT! simulation

After about 80+ years of maturing the combustion engines in modern cars still uses over 60% off the energy from fuel to produce waste heat...

I agree with the general statement, but there was a large crowd shouting and some considerations to upgrade the Simulation Engine to an acceptable performance and develop a third party concept, before concentrating on fragmentation calculations and simulation that would have given you a 20 fpm (frames per minute) slide show with the old engine.

I remember the first iterations of the CBU-97s submunition in the old engine pretty well.

The logical step was to release and mature the new engine first.

That is what they currently do.

Luckily for us, this also opened a road for 3rd parties and new maps (SDK availability).

From what I understand of the implications, if they hadn't gone down that road we would still be flying the Ka-50, A-10C, the L-39C and some Warbirds in the old engine with performance issues...

So actually in my point of view it is how it is and I hope the merge comes sooner than later and they can focus on these things like damage and subsequent effects, AI maneuvering/SFM, AI tactics etc.

With Normandy we already got a first step. We see treelines have direct impact on LOS and spotting. Dense lines block totally, sparse lines let them spot and attack you when between trees standing wider apart.