The F-22 Thread

F-22 for export?

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/india-boeing-superhornet-idUSKCN0VC0IB

Literally against the law, and Boeing only helped produce it, the Raptor is more properly Lockheed's baby.

Sounds ridiculous tbh. That would involve reopening the production line aswell.

F-22s are not eligable to be exported.

Hence the F35 Program.

Moreover, every F22 loss now needs to be mourned, as they will not order any replacements.

So its literally end of the line for the F22?

So its literally end of the line for the F22?

It's been the end of the line since 2011 when the last Raptor was finished. There will be no restarting the Raptor line, it is illegal to export, and Congress will not fund it. She is a gorgeous plane, but she's just too expensive and specialized, and with shrinking military budgets, we can't afford planes that do one and a half mission types.

So its literally end of the line for the F22?

Yup, no more will be manufactured, line is shutdown.

They are down to 181,

Due to crashes (bringing down to 184 from 187),

And Airframes that were removed from flight status due to structural damage from landing incidents (184 to 181).

Those 3 will be cleaned up, stripped of parts and shipped off for static displays

You can barely stall an alien invasion with just 181. How difficult woukd it be to restart production? I cant imagine it will be barred from export till the end of its service life...

You can barely stall an alien invasion with just 181. How difficult woukd it be to restart production? I cant imagine it will be barred from export till the end of its service life...

We're talking hilarious amounts of money, and years of time. First, and the easiest part, is going out to that desert storage facility where all the tooling for the airframe is, shipping that to a factory, that you have free and on hand (Not bloody likely) and inspecting every single piece for any amount of corrosion (After all, we're talking super tight tolerances here, you're not just boring into 516 steel with +-10 thou)and replace anything that isn't good anymore. We're assuming you have all the machines you need at this factory (again, not bloody likely, so you'll have to order them in, and that takes MONTHS). Now you've got your machines, and your tools, but you need engineers. Okay, hire those dudes, give them benefits and all that goodness, because Government contract. Oh yeah, building and OSEA inspections! WOOHOOO that's gonna take a while, because again, gov contract and red tape. This is also assuming you're already in a facility meant to build aircraft, because if not, well MORE inspections, because zoning and certifications!

Also, background checks for all them engineers you just hired and handing out code word clearance! MORE MONTHS :D

Ok, we've got the people, we've got the machines, we've got the tools, and OSEA finally said we've got enough fire extinguishers. TRAINING TIME!!! Those engineers need training for the job they're doing, the need time to learn from all the prints, ect. ect. ect. We'll do it as we go, but that means slow startup.

But wait, we don't have materials.... Shit, gotta issue contracts, put them up for bidding because, Government Contract. So that process is gonna take a few... you thought i was going to say months right? Nope, this is gonna take YEARS. Also, congress, soooo, double that... then double it again.

So now materials are finally coming in, we've got the engineers and machinists and janitors and supervisors and quality controllers ect. ect. ect. ect. ad nauseam~ we've got machines, and tools, oh and by the way we've negotiated with the gov for the buy of F-22s. We've started low rate production, because we've gotta work out all the bugs and kinks in the assembly line, and incorporate all the post production line closing changes.

By the end of this, we've spent about 15 years and tens of billions of dollars to restart the line, producing F-22s that will cost several hundred million to recoup that cost, initially.

So no, F-22 is done, no one else will ever build it again. Move on.

uFAyc1SHOGg

The tools they are using dont make sense at all.... :huh: Even my local car garage uses more advanced tools that come with pressure regulated electric torque wrench system.

Why would you wanna mantain such a costly aircraft without making sure all the bolts are applied correctly pressure wise..

The tools they are using dont make sense at all.... :huh: Even my local car garage uses more advanced tools that come with pressure regulated electric torque wrench system.

 

Why would you wanna mantain such a costly aircraft without making sure all the bolts are applied correctly pressure wise..

Because you can use those tools as long as you have arms. A drill runs out of batteries, and if your compressor doesn't work, neither does any pneumatic tool.

The tools they are using dont make sense at all.... :huh: Even my local car garage uses more advanced tools that come with pressure regulated electric torque wrench system.

 

Why would you wanna mantain such a costly aircraft without making sure all the bolts are applied correctly pressure wise..

The tools made perfect since to me after working on aircraft from 1997 to 2012. Cars don't have the type of screws they are using. Power tools tend to strip or over-torque the screws. Most tool kits do have speed handle torque wrenches but guys don't use them. Also, those screws are removed and replaced many times, there is no hood on aircraft. Imagine that the hood over the engine on your car is bolted on, so every time you need to get in the engine compartment, you have to removed 200 screws and before you take those screws out you have to remove the paint. Some air base do allow power tools in the back shops like Phase dock or fuel shop, but they have to be calibrated.

TyHjkJGoMuk

5 Feb 1998 at Edwards - The No. 1 F-22 Engineering Management Decision (EMD) s/n -4001 was delivered to the Air Force Flight Test Center in a C-5 Galaxy.

https://www.facebook.com/EdwardsAirForceBase/photos/pb.139549732762631.-2207520000.1454697673./1074967979220797/?type=3&theater

i once had a talk with a technician that was working on the Prowlers. From what i understood the prowlers at least were not designed to blind specific targets but had more of an area effect, then i remembered an incident that took place while i was serving in Greek army at 1990.

It was just as the first gulf war kicked in. We saw very dimm lights on the evening sky comming from very high altitude to our direction. It looked like a swarm of warplanes using only the War Ops lights. At the same time below it entire areas of city squares went dark. When it approached our bearings we lost all power and even our radios had issues, we had to go in a backup mode to make em work again. Once the lights dissapeared lights came back again. This was pretty spooky.

I have learned to respect technology that night.

On a side note i remember him saying that he found it very odd about how they did manage to provide the needed power for EWAR on the smaller F18s.

GAO-14-425 F-22 MODERNIZATION May 2014

Direct PDF link

acc.dau.mil/adl/en-US/706764/file/77060/GAO%20May%2014%20Rpt%20Re%20F-22%20Cost%20%20Schedule.pdf

Edit,

I guess I can't put the link

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/listen-and-watch-the-mechanical-symphony-that-is-an-f-2-1756565681

Mildly interesting F-22 article and videos, if you can get past the patriotic fervour.

The tools made perfect since to me after working on aircraft from 1997 to 2012. Cars don't have the type of screws they are using. Power tools tend to strip or over-torque the screws. Most tool kits do have speed handle torque wrenches but guys don't use them. Also, those screws are removed and replaced many times, there is no hood on aircraft. Imagine that the hood over the engine on your car is bolted on, so every time you need to get in the engine compartment, you have to removed 200 screws and before you take those screws out you have to remove the paint. Some air base do allow power tools in the back shops like Phase dock or fuel shop, but they have to be calibrated.

Tight for flight :)

I'm fairly certain the mechanic in that video is using what's called a torque limiting socket. Hear the click when he stops fastening? They are very accurate, very repeatable and very simple. automotive manufacturing uses what's called an ETC gun. They're electronically controlled and depending on the gun the set torque falls within a specified range. The issue is there a cumbersome usually attached overhead to their power source. What they do allow for is traceability, every bolt and every nut torque achieved can be stored in a database. But they need to be calibrated on a regular basis. As far as wrenching in the garage, I probably won't use my torque wrench bolting on my cool new footprint gas pedal but almost anything else I'm going to use a clicker torque wrench, even on my lug nuts.

Tight for flight :)

 

I'm fairly certain the mechanic in that video is using what's called a torque limiting socket. Hear the click when he stops fastening? They are very accurate, very repeatable and very simple. automotive manufacturing uses what's called an ETC gun. They're electronically controlled and depending on the gun the set torque falls within a specified range. The issue is there a cumbersome usually attached overhead to their power source. What they do allow for is traceability, every bolt and every nut torque achieved can be stored in a database. But they need to be calibrated on a regular basis. As far as wrenching in the garage, I probably won't use my torque wrench bolting on my cool new footprint gas pedal but almost anything else I'm going to use a clicker torque wrench, even on my lug nuts.

If you say so, but I seriously doubted. Never saw nor used one but times change, I still do not think is likely. They are just using torque tips ( 20 and 30) a bit holder, a speed handle and an extension, nothing else is needed except if they are going to combat and then all the screw heads have to be covered. The sound you hear is the t20/30 bit skipping on the bold head, so the bolts are starting to get worn already. If you notice, once it makes that sound they slow down and torque a bit more, what you do is you press harder against the bolt, I used to push with my leg at the end of the speed handle. On really troublesome screws or really worn ones, I would put a job guide as a pad between my leg or shoulder and the speed handle.

I watch again (not on my phone this time) and you're right, nothing special going on there. The t30 heads are in really bad shape. Luckily there are a ton of them and they do the knock test haha. You were correct, just tight for flight! :)

http://thehowlandcompany.com/radar_stealth/RCS-Lockheed_F-22.htm

Lockheed Martin Corp. Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $9,865,391 modification (P00612) on Feb. 8 to exercise the option on previously awarded contract FA8611-08-C-2897. Contractor will provide support to the F-22 Radar Cross Section Marietta Turntable and Aircraft Structural Integrity program. Work will be performed at Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be complete by Dec. 31, 2016. Fiscal 2016 operation and maintenance funds in the amount of $9,865,391 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, is the contracting activity.

http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/656554

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $45,478,941 modification (P00670) to previously awarded contract FA8611-08-C-2897 for support to increase the flight hours for the F-22 weapon system. Work will be performed at Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be complete by Dec. 31, 2016.

http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/670931

Interesting article in Air Forces Monthly Issue 336, March 2016, about BFM between F-22s, Typhoon, and Rafale. French pilots made some interesting remarks about ASRAAMs and HMD.

Any chance you could elaborate, link or scan some more info for us please emu?

I didn't actually buy it, so no scans. But basically they did BFM against each other with the Typhoon's HMD and ASRAAMs unleashed and the French pilots were taken aback by the lethality and forced to completely rethink their tactics, according to their own words.

Some good stuff about the F-22 as well but I only briefly scan read it.

It was in this one: